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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Sep 25 18:38:21 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard, Agent Cooper That also makes me wonder about the current crisis with North Korea. How far would China (or Russia) would go in supporting North Korea.



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Sep 25 16:57:42 2017 165.225.38.68) [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard/Lostinamerica: I read once that the biggest reason the US went to Vietnam and stayed there so long was to discourage Chinese and Russian influence (read communism) from overtaking SE Asia. IE the old domino theory at work, and America was very, very serious about this during the cold war.

How serious?

Well, the message was loud and clear: The US would not stand by and allow communism to spread ANYWHERE - not even in a dirt poor, strategically and economically insignificant backwater like Vietnam.

The US vowed to fight communism for every inch wherever it encroached, and Vietnam proved that they would do just that. Yes, you could say the other side "won", but look what it cost them.

I read a piece that had a commentary on this by a former officer in the Russian military command at the time, and he said that message was received loud and clear, as least by Moscow. The Russians were shocked at how much money, loss of life and political capital at home the US was willing to spend on the war. What should have been a short revolution in a backwater country nobody cared about turned into a massively expensive proxy bloodbath waged by superpowers.

The Russian high command could not believe America would sacrifice so much all for a piece of real estate in SE Asia that was virtually worthless to them in the big picture. This was an eye opener for them. It really gave them pause, and did the same for China, who at the time didn't have anything like the resources Russia had to confront the US.

People are always debating on why we were in Vietnam, and what it was all about and I think this is exactly why. And I think you could argue on this basis that it worked, in a strategic sense. At least partly.

Was it worth the loss of life? I don't know if anybody could really answer that.



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Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Sep 25 15:02:10 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Advertising
Question: What did the Arabian Taster hawk?



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Mon Sep 25 14:24:48 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard--Yes, that was covered in the documentary, how difficult it
was to tell who was who.

And the US did do a significant amount of bombing in North Vietnam--problem
was, everyone pitched in, and I mean everyone, civilians, women, children, to
repair the damage, then they were resupplied by Russia or China. Darn wars by
proxy ;) I don't know if the US could have invaded North Vietnam and worked
its way up to Hanoi with the troop levels they were working with--it would be a
massive undertaking that I don't believe the public would have supported.

I agree with the theory guerillas can win by just surviving until TPTB throw up
their hands and negotiate or leave. As you said, it worked for us and it
worked for them. Johnson was trying to bomb the hell out of them to bring them
to the negotiating table but they were holding their own in the field and so
didn't see the need.

We're not up to that yet, I didn't see last night's episode but the episode
before that was building up to the Tet Offensive :)


Agent Cooper--Your friend was very lucky!



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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Sep 25 12:19:08 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Monday, September 25th 2017 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!


Caged Rage
John
Legal_Lurker
Myslayre

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Caged Rage, John, Legal_Lurker, Myslayre!



I've been out of the abbey two days, I've beaten a lawman senseless, I've fallen in with criminals. I watched the captain shoot the man I swore to protect. And I'm not even sure if I think he was wrong. Book, 'Serenity' '

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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wolfguard says:
(Mon Sep 25 06:06:13 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Asteria,

I googled "Firefly Fan Sites" and one result ....

fireflyfans.net

I have no experience with this site, but it looks like some effort went into it and some folks have visited it.


WG



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Asteria says:
(Mon Sep 25 05:12:32 2017 23.240.161.37) [Edit/Delete]
I'm a Firefly fan, are there boards
here that cater to Browncoats?



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wolfguard says:
(Mon Sep 25 04:01:39 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

SPOILER Star Trek: Discovery

((I've a friend who's most potent criticism of a show or movie is "needed editing". Just typed the show's initials and realized it won't fly. *g*

This show needed editing. I understood the following needed to be established ...

1. Captain and Michael have been together for years and work well together.

2. A Klingon leader was working to bring the tribes together.

3. Michael had lost family to Klingons and had been raised on Vulcan and has/had a Vulcan mentor.

Then the story ...

Something happens, mysterious object. What should we do? What does it mean? etc.

But how it crawled along, especially the Klingon scenes.

It might help to let a small audience go to the read-through and see if the story works without special effects. It should. Hamlet only had the skull.

The final scenes between Michael, the Captain and the bridge crew was working, but one of my friends had already gotten up and wandered off to do something else.
))



WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Sep 25 01:12:48 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Woot! Watching Star Trek: Discovery!



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wolfguard says:
(Sun Sep 24 21:36:36 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica,

Several infantry veterans of the Vietnam war described similar tours to me. Strategy evolved and got translated in the field. Different place, time, duty - different experience. One might have been safer in Nha Trang in 1962 than Saigon in 1968.


WG



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Agent Cooper says:
(Sun Sep 24 18:15:09 2017 100.4.183.212) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica": I worked with a guy who was a vietnam veteran. He was regular army. I asked him about his experience once, and he told me it was all just kind of odd. He said he spent most of his time at some base or other on guard duty. Now and then the brass would tell them they were going to march someplace and fight a battle, and they usually were told they were going to take some village or town.

So they'd load up and march to wherever it was and get ready to assault this or that position. And when they got there...the enemy was always gone. The place would be deserted.

He said he never once saw a live enemy soldier, only deceased ones on the roads. He said his unit was involved in a real firefight maybe two times, and again, he never really saw the enemy. Just gunfire coming from a treeline or behind a wall, and when they fired back and advanced the enemy would melt away into the jungle.

Neither the Viet Cong or the NVA would ever fight a pitched conventional battle en masse. Not at least when he was there.

His whole tour was like that, and then he went home. That as it.

He'd heard all the horror stories about what some other guys saw and went through, both at the time and afterward. But he never saw any of that. His tour was relatively uneventful, and he was very grateful for that.

The odd thing is, the most horrible thing HE saw happened while he was in boot camp. During a live fire session at the range, one of the trainees turned his gun on the training instructor and killed him. That stayed with him more than anything he saw in 'nam.



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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Sep 24 15:05:21 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Sunday, September 24th 2017 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!


Buffster Dulux
Claddagh
slay_me
+Blessed Be+

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Buffster Dulux, Claddagh, slay_me, +Blessed Be+!



Oh, I get it. You just don't like who did the rescuing, that's all. Wishin' I was your boyfriend what's-his-height. Oh wait, he's run off. Spike, 'Checkpoint''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Sep 24 00:33:20 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Hot Chocolate and Cold Ice cream...a winning combination tonight!



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Sep 23 22:47:41 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
back from helping out at a Aging Gracefully Expo!

But I'm ready for blankets and hot chocolate.



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wolfguard says:
(Sat Sep 23 22:06:24 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica,

In WWII and the Korean War success could be measured by holding land. In Vietnam we were supporting a government who was fighting insurgents and the NVA. Insurgents had some ability to blend into the population which could make it difficult to know if Saigon was winning or losing the support of its citizens.1 The NVA could withdraw back to North Vietnam or across the border into Laos or Cambodia and we were loathe to follow them.2 This lead the Johnson administration and McNamara's DOD to look for other metrics, body count being the most infamous.

I recall one soldier saying ~ we count the bodies going in and count them again going out. There are several variations on this, such as ...

~Body count math is: two guerrillas plus one portable plus two pigs=37 enemy in action.


1 One can find various approaches and methods towards measuring these sort of things. Some people believe some are useful and some think they are jokes. Variations were used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

2 There were people who said they only way to win would be to overthrow the Hanoi government, i.e. invade and conquer. Do what the French could not. An alternative was do ~bomb North Vietnam back to the stone age~. Hanoi wasn't that far from the stone age.

All through the war the US tried to choke-off supply, first coming in along the coast and then down the Ho Chi Minh Trail. I recall one analyst who collected incidents of guerilla attacks across South Vietnam and discovered the normal level for any given week would only need a truck or two worth of supply a week.

There's library of theory and practice of guerilla war, but most all agree that guerillas can win by just surviving until TPTB throw up their hands and negotiate or leave (worked for Washington). Second, each time a guerilla carries out a successful attack they're showing the population the government is weak and ineffective.


Eventually Nixon did send conventional troops across the border to attack NVA refuges in Cambodia. Big Protests. Kent State.



WG



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DaddyCatALSO says:
(Sat Sep 23 20:28:42 2017 216.164.173.90) [Edit/Delete]
,RIP Bernie Casey



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sat Sep 23 18:19:50 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper--LOL!

Really, it IS getting a little repetitive--the Viet Cong were better fighters
than expected, they knew the territory better, soldiers went in thinking they
were fighting for one thing and find out it's another, Johnson and his advisers
were conflicted, enough, I got it already! Five more episodes of this :(


Comma--In Burns' documentary there is a lot of talk about the body
count, how they got fixated on it and ended up counting ANY dead they found,
whether they could be authenticated as Viet Cong or not :( Then there was the
complete guessing after battles :(

Happy Birthday to Mrs. Comma!


Maverick--I would say "fortunately" got sent to Germany--war is hell,
you know :(

I can see how the U.S. believed they needed to stop the Viet Cong and
Communism, given the times. Too bad the Vietnamese saw it as a war against
foreign aggression and considered the US the aggressors :(


Yay! Cabin7dad!



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Sep 23 13:44:08 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Saturday, September 23rd 2017 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!


andeeh
Angelik
AngelLover24-7
Caroline
DrkPoet101
Evil makeup artist of Angel
Lissie
Mt Sunrise

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to andeeh, Angelik, AngelLover24-7, Caroline
DrkPoet101, Evil makeup artist of Angel, Lissie, Mt Sunrise!



Spike: Ladies. Come on in. Plenty of blood in the fridge, don't be shy. Dawn: You mean like, real blood? Spike: What do you think? Dawn: Mostly I think, 'Eew!' 'Checkpoint''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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Comma says:
(Sat Sep 23 03:14:38 2017 75.143.154.113) [Edit/Delete]
I am home for my wife's 65th birthday on Monday. Plus there is the added attraction of Alabama playing Vanderbilt in Nashville tomorrow. I am going back to North Carolina on Tuesday.

Talking about Vietnam: I once read a report where someone had added all the supposed KIAs listed in battle reports. If the numbers were really true, we wiped out the entire population of North and South Vietnam, Laos, and one-third of Cambodia. The official number of NVA/VC killed, as reported to DC, was less than 1% of those listed on battle reports.

Comma



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Sep 23 02:30:25 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
The music these days is not to my taste. Back to my 80s playlist!



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Sep 23 00:58:42 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
back...not as much fun than I thought..I'll just play here.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Sep 22 23:32:23 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
not a great end to my day at work....gonna do something fun now!



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Sep 22 19:56:52 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
yay cabin7dad!

Thank Joss It's Friday!

swamped like a Swam Thing!



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Sep 22 18:47:50 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Sep 22 18:55:45 2017
DaddyCatALSO,

I'm easy with your friend's interpretation, but who can honestly know? As to revelations of dark secrets, the old advice still holds value ...

"Those who talk don't know and those who know don't talk." (They also don't draw attention to themselves)


ETA First, a disclaimer. I have never been a Navy SEAL. But, as a young boy after seeing The Frogmen, a movie about WWII's Underwater Demolition Teams, I spent my summers stringing up 'explosives' in the community swimming pool and swamping boats in the lake. What could be more fun that speeding around in boats and blowing up things? (it was a more innocent time). When I first learned about the SEAL Teams thought, yeah a real secret unit that no one knows about. Not like those 'Green Berets'. Passe. *g*

Anyway, years later I hear old SEALs complaining about the new generation of SEALs writing books, starring in movies, and becoming motivational speakers. No more cloak with the dagger. :(

*g*


WG



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Maverick says:
(Fri Sep 22 18:11:35 2017 68.51.139.52) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Nancy Pelosi and Bela Lugosi


Christopher Marlowe, Agent Cooper, lostinamerica: I was drafted into the Army during the Vietnam War (1967) but unfortunately they sent me to Germany or maybe me and Ole Betsy (M-14) could have shaved an episode off of the Burns documentary. "Maverick: First Blood, Part II" but, alas, it was not to be. BTW, I subscribed to the Twiddly Winks Theory of Communist Aggression.


Mel Brooks says, "Stupidly, Politically-Correct Society is the Death of Comedy."


Maverick


96 Tears




^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Fri Sep 22 16:55:54 2017 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Christopher Marlowe A friend of mine as an undergrad who w as an International Relations major said he thought the Domino Theory was perfectly applicable- to the former French Indochina, that a solid Communist victory in one would take the other two after . It just didn't need to extend over the rest of the area.

"but if they are alive and they are true to their
calling, we'll never learn it from them." A co-worker when I worked for NAVAIR in Philly, himself a Vietnam veteran, told me he'd spoken with guys whose service assignments took them all over; not just into neutral Laos and Cambodia, not just into the backcountry of Allied Thailand which was supposedly not at war, but into North Vietnam itself and even into China. I'm sure Comma could curl our toes with some of his stories if he weren't bound both by his oaths in general and, given some of those stories are not exactly light entertainment, a certain common decency in more specific cases.



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YayOfTheDay says:
(Fri Sep 22 14:39:45 2017 192.225.183.94) [Edit/Delete]
let's give a big bronze cheer for cabin7dad!

yay cabin7dad!

Thank Joss It's Friday!



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Sep 22 14:07:55 2017 165.225.38.68) [Edit/Delete]
Varmint Cong!

This ends my contribution to this discussion. You are all welcome



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Sep 22 14:02:54 2017 165.225.38.68) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica - They tried to cut the war down to 6 episodes, but the Viet Cong wasn't having it.

*rim shot*



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lostinamerica says:
(Fri Sep 22 13:41:38 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday DeAn!


Belated Yay! vampslayer!



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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Sep 22 13:23:46 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Friday, September 22nd 2017 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!


Buffanatic2002
Carol
cassandra
DeAn
Jendiver
Medalion

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Buffanatic2002, Carol, cassandra, DeAn, Jendiver, Medalion!



Pretty cool except for the part where I was really terrified and now my knees are all dizzy.Willow, 'Listening to Fear' '

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Sep 22 03:01:40 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard That's a perspective of the two World Wars that I hadn't thought about.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Sep 22 02:56:03 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

In the time, many believed that if South Vietnam were to surrender to North
Vietnam it would be the first step towards other southeast Asian countries
becoming dominated by communists. This was the 'Domino Theory' which I'm
sure Burns has examined. It's the perceived wisdom of many that this theory
was flawed. OTOH, there are those who believe the US' stand provided time
for some of the region's other countries to get their political and
economic feet under them.

For decades I accepted, without much thought, the assumption that WWII
ended well in defeating the Axis powers and that WWI had been a colossal
waste of life and wealth. A few years ago it was pointed out to me that
there were many in central Europe who saw it the other way around. World
War I saw four empires collapse - the German, the Russian, the Ottomans,
and the Austro-Hungarian. A number of new, independent states emerged from
the imperial ruins. For them, WWI had ended well. OTOH, the end of WWII saw
most of them brought under the thumb of the Soviet Union.



WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Sep 22 02:18:15 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Yes. And unlike the other war docs by Burns, there isn't a good outcome, so it feels like a long march into a dark tunnel with no light at the end.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Sep 22 01:38:56 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

I just did some quick googling. In 1995, the government of Vietnam
estimated 2 million civilians died1 and 1.1 million North
Vietnamese soldiers and Viet Cong (southern insurgents died). The US
estimated 200,000 to 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers died. Around 58,000
American servicemen died.2 As I recall the first American
serviceman to die in Vietnam died in 1959. The last American servicemen to
die were two Marines in 1975.3

To put this in another perspective, in Rwanda in the spring of 1994 800,000
to 1,000,000 Tutsi and moderate Hutus were killed in around 100 days. The
killers mostly used machetes.


1 I assume from bullets, explosives, and flame and not from
illness and starvation (along with exposure, usually the major cause of
civilian deaths in wars).

2 A couple decades ago, I read eight American servicewomen died
in Vietnam. I believe all were nurses (and several of them may have died
together in a plane or helicopter crash).

3 As I know it, this is according to the official record. There
very well may have been other American 'forces' fighting in Vietnam before
1959 and after 1975, but if they are alive and they are true to their
calling, we'll never learn it from them.


WG



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wolfguard says:
(Fri Sep 22 01:12:06 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Too much video?

WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Sep 22 01:10:42 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I'm beginning to thing the Civil War series was a piece of cake to watch as compared to the Vietnam one, in a lot of ways.



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Sep 22 00:19:00 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: TV
Question: What song was also know as the Benny Hill Theme Song?
Answer: Yackety Sax

Trivia Benny Hills: DaddyCatALSO!



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Sep 21 23:40:46 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Sep 21 23:42:13 2017
Christopher Marlowe,

What's the reasoning for your doubt?

ETA Oops! I missed the 'no' in your post. My bad. *g*


WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 21 23:32:00 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I have no doubt that the story was the final impetus to close down.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Sep 21 20:30:44 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

I first read about Kai's essay was in the past few weeks. It was on that same
day I read "Whedonesque" had been closed. I got the impression that it was
closed very shortly after Kai went public with her allegations of Joss'
infidelities.

WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 21 19:52:29 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Sep 21 19:54:07 2017
yay vampslayer!

Happy CD Thursday!

ETA

Maverick It was my understanding that Whedonesque had been planning to shut down as far back as five years ago.



^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Thu Sep 21 16:52:16 2017 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl Yakety Sax, also co-composer Boots Randolph's signature piece

Maverick A couple posters in both the Buffy and Whedon "subs" over at Reddit got criticized for speculation on names; like I've said, I hope I live long enough for all of them to have written their memoirs while I can read them



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Sep 21 15:16:02 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Sep 21 18:00:38 2017
Drive-By

Trivia Girl,

I bow out on today's question, only knowing the topic in passing.

....


"Years later and a few men killed, Arya's smile still lights up a room."

WINTER IS COMING!

I cannot feign anymore excitement over this prospect. *g*

Perhaps a bit more.


WG



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Sep 21 15:11:17 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: TV
Question: What song was also know as the Benny Hill Theme Song?



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YayOfTheDay says:
(Thu Sep 21 14:27:09 2017 192.225.183.94) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a big bronze cheer for vampslayer!

yay vampslayer!

Happy CD Thursday!



^ v
Maverick says:
(Thu Sep 21 06:23:06 2017 68.51.139.52) [Edit/Delete]
lostinamerica: We are ALL potentially at risk for identity theft because of Equifax's lapses in security. As I said before, just about anything you do on Equifax's website, whether trying to determine if you ARE at risk AND/OR signing up for Equifax's version of "LifeLock©," you surreptitiously end up WAIVING your rights to pursue your own separate lawsuit against Equifax, and/or joining an existing class action suit against Equifax.


Are we missing the Joss story? "Whedonesque," the website, has shut down because of the allegations about Joss's duplicity about being a fake "feminist." According to Kai (Whedon) Cole, Joss was having affairs with some of his co-workers, actresses, fans, etc. But, who, can we guess? I could guess. It would probably be a marginal actress who inexplicably has a role larger than deserved. Probably shouldn't guess. We could make the news just by speculating.


R.I.P. Jake LaMotta. I have a picture of me and Jake and his wife Vickie, taken when they visited Detroit for a screening of the Martin Scorsese movie "Raging Bull," about the life of LaMotta. They were both very pleasant. Robert DeNiro, needless to say, won the Academy Award for his role in the movie (when he put on an incredible amount of weight to play LaMotta during a low period in his life.)


Maverick


Theme from "Taxi Driver"




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wolfguard says:
(Thu Sep 21 03:05:29 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Comma,

Amusement Park line, LOL!

"Ross Perot"?


Christopher Marlowe,

Innovation, productivity, economic inequality, money, debt, globalization,
scientific illiteracy ... the possibilities are endless. *g*

WG



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Thu Sep 21 02:37:28 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
Maverick--Two members of my
family are potentially at risk
because of the Equifax breach.
Equifax wants you to sign up with
them for protection you may need
because of their mistake. . .in
other words, sign up for protection
with the company who caused the
problem in the first place. Uhhh.
. .they said no thanks ;)


ChristopherMarlowe--Good
Lord, I just Googled--Burns'
Vietnam War documentary is 10
EPISODES, 10! Methinks someone was
in dire need of an editor ;)


Yay! Aramina!



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Comma says:
(Thu Sep 21 01:57:42 2017 75.143.154.113) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Sep 21 02:03:31 2017
ChristopherMarlowe: Vietnam:

1. We are still finding US Vietnam units that are not listen in the official records. Just three years ago we added C Battery 6/16th Field Artillery. There were a separate 155 Artillery unit that served with FORCECOM, 1st Cav, and the 101st.

2. The last official American, held in a Hanoi prison, was a US civilian, who had no reason to be in North Vietnam. This civilian flew himself to Hanoi to try and help the peace process. His name was Ross Perot.

3. Bombers, from Guam, were in the air the day that Saigon fell. None ever entered the airspace of Vietnam. Once the last four Marines were extracted from the US Embassy, the bombers returned to base.

4. As of last count, 56 Americans, who had been listed in POW status, returned to the US from, mostly, Sweden. That was after Carter pardon.

5. There are over 75 more Americans, formally listed as POW, who are known to have been living in Europe at one time or another, who did not return home.

Bedtime. More later.

Comma

P.S.: Most will never understand this statement" WAR GIVES ONE THE SAME FEELINGS AS BEING AT AN AMUSMENT PARK. Minus the human destruction. CC



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 21 01:41:03 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Any topic other than the war we should cover tonight?



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 21 00:26:31 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
More Vietnam, just learning more than I ever did before.



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Sep 20 23:34:35 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What was the home world of Lorne?
Answer: Pylea

Trivia Pylean ambassadors: wolfguard, Agent Cooper!



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Sep 20 21:00:13 2017 165.225.38.68) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl - Pylea!



I hate this job some days.

I call those days "weekdays."



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Sep 20 20:27:43 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
yay aramina!

Happy non-Angel Wednesday!



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Sep 20 18:26:25 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl,

Pylea-by-the-Sea

:)

WG



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Sep 20 15:21:14 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What was the home world of Lorne?



^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Wed Sep 20 13:31:20 2017 69.145.236.158) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a big bronze cheer for aramina1

yay aramina!

Happy non-Angel Wednesday!



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Sep 20 13:22:48 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Wednesday, September 20th 2017 C.E.

We have THIRTEEN (13) Birthdays!


AngelUK
B'naa
cymru_lover
devil
faithdust
jessanne
Jocor
Krow
Lexie
samantha
SpikeMe
The Angel E
Tralfamadore2001

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to AngelUK, B'naa, cymru_lover, devil, faithdust, jessanne, Jocor, Krow, Lexie, samantha, SpikeMe, The Angel E, Tralfamadore2001!



I couldn't believe it the first twenty times you told us, but it's starting to sink in now.
Riley, 'Buffy vs Dracula' '


to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 20 13:09:02 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
OldManFan is on his usual road trip, hence the lack of yays this week!



^ v
Maverick says:
(Wed Sep 20 05:03:36 2017 68.51.139.52) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Pugsley


Christopher Marlowe: Equifax? There supposedly is a website to go to to determine if you should be affected. BUT if you DO go there and acknowledge you want to know this information, they surreptitiously get you to WAIVE your right later on to sue them on a class action basis, so watch your step. I watched a number of YouTube video on news-type people reporting this security breach and they kind of were heading in the direction of (if this really worries you) instituting a credit freeze with each credit reporting agency (Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion) which might cost $10 to establish each freeze (which stops others from looking at your credit report.) But then if you ever need to USE your credit, you must temporarily unfreeze the freeze (which will cost you something again.)


Christopher Marlowe, Agent Cooper: George Soros (patron saint of the Left) on the Pyschiatrist's couch. Also Soros's War Against America


Climate Alarmists Admit They Were Wrong About Global Warming


Maverick


It's My Life




^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Sep 20 02:44:52 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Most anyone can read a teleprompter if they have the will to do so.

I could not find my notes on the reporters' reactions to President Trump's
...

(A) ~ "totally destroy" North Korea if it is forced to defend itself or its
allies.

(B) ~'Rocket Man' is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.
The United States is ready, willing and able, but hopefully this will not
be necessary."


What I recall was the room 'gasped' and there was much 'murmuring'. *g*


A more traditional wording for "A" ...

If threaten or attacked the United States would respond appropriately to
end the threat and stop the attack (and the attacker would be no more -
read my silence).

I believe (B) is an relatively accurate analysis of the situation Kim has
gotten himself into. If the North Korea's conventional forces were not
looming across the border from Seoul, then we may well have launched
~precision~ attacks on Kim's nuclear facilities some time ago. Until the
Kim's started down the nuclear weapons war, the US had basically accepted
the Kim regime running North Korea. What would happen would depend on the
Koreans. But now Kim has become an existential threat to the US. Kim has
taken an incredible gamble and he's playing against someone who might well
strike first and ask questions later.

WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 20 01:32:17 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I imagine the experience of giving the speech would be something unusual for Trump. I think he is used to a lot of noise, cheering and whatnot. Speaking to the UN is a vastly difference experience. I know they recommend speakers don't use any kind of humor, because it doesn't translate well.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Sep 20 01:10:00 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

You might be reading fake-news. *g* Earlier I listened to a reporter who
was roomed with a number of other reporters (?) watching the live video. I
wrote down what he heard said across the room.

I've not yet heard or read the text of the speech, don't know that I will.
I will venture he did not stray much outside the lines, though he may have
used bold and clashing colors not often seen by the diplomatic and press
corp.

His critics will express dismay and his supporters will love it. Often some
observe Trump does not behave like a president should behave, but their
expectations are not written in stone. Trump may be a pioneer in presidents
in the era of populism and social media. He's not mastered the pinky tea
cup and his people are just fine with it.

Or, his habits and mannerisms may incur risk a president should minimize.
*Shrug* One reason for diplomatic protocol is to smooth the edges between
cultures who edges don't mesh well. Words are carefully considered because
experienced people have experienced the traps and crises of words poorly
used in the past. Clear talk doesn't always translate across languages and
cultures.


WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 20 00:51:20 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Comedians earn money for their cents of humor

. What did the salad say to the plate? I'm all dressed up but there's nowhere to go.

Can a kleptomaniac take something to cure him?

Regular visitors to the dentist are familiar with the drill.

Notice outside the supermarket: Chicken soup is out of stock.
The fractions were really happy about the new addition to their family.

Never marry porters. They come with a lot of baggage.

The chef entered the kitchen with caution. It was smelling fishy



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 20 00:46:17 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Reading a little on Trump's speeches the UN. Sounds like he didn't do too badly!



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Sep 19 23:41:24 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial PUrsuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What amphibian did Willow fear?
Answer: frogs!

Trivia Master of the Frog: wolfguard!



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Sep 19 18:37:29 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica,

After WWII the US' was generally in favor of decolonization. For reasons I do not know or remember, the US did not push this with respect France's colonies in Indochina. But going with your "what-if?"

Batista's Cuba comes first to my mind. As I recall, the US was not all that pleased with Batista and Castro in the mountains had the aura of independence fighter. I believe we rooted for Castro and may have provided some support. Castro probably told us what we wanted to believe, but soon after taking power he was executing people in the football fields.

So, might Ho have deceived us into pressing France to leave?1 If he had, then how would the southerners reacted? There might still have been a civil war and the US would have had to figure out where our interests laid.

OTOH, what if Ho had stole a march on China and opened some of its coastal areas to foreign investment and push exports? Might there have been a Little Dragon on the South China Sea? How would China have reacted? In 1979 China invaded Vietnam to punish it for invading Cambodia. China took a beating and withdrew, but put a good face on it: It was a warning.


1 In their African colonies, the French tried to turn the local elites into good French folk and maintained good ties with their former colonies (the former French president sent French military forces to Mali to fight Boko Haram - and he's a socialist). What if Ho had persuaded France to leave peacefully? Afterall, Ho loved croissants (believed he worked awhile as a baker when he lived in France).


WG



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Sep 19 17:57:46 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl,

WILLOW
(to security guards)
~Frogs! Frogs! Frogs! Get'em AwaY! Get'em Away! (beat) Oh ... no more frogs.

Name the episode *g*


WG



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Sep 19 17:55:18 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
mid-morning drop in.

The morning is going great so far and should continue throughout the day. Chance of clouds a 1%.



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Sep 19 15:03:07 2017 205.141.66.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial PUrsuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What amphibian did Willow fear?



^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Tue Sep 19 14:52:10 2017 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Christopher Marlowe lostinamerica Personally, I blame the Cham. If they had just held it together long enough to stop the old Dai Viet say a short way above the old DMZ, there would still have been issues but it would not have been so chaotic.



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Sep 19 13:02:58 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Tuesday, September 19th 2017 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!


amberlynne
Angelicsoul
Carebear
CharlieX
chiquens
Falco
Gryphon
SlayerGirl

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to amberlynne, Angelicsoul, Carebear, CharlieX, chiquens, Falco, Gryphon, SlayerGirlMarie!



Well, other bands know more than three chords. Your professional bands can play up to six, sometimes seven, completely different chords. Oz, 'Doppelgangland''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Tue Sep 19 12:50:32 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard--The timing was never right for the U.S. to work with Ho Chi
Minh. After WWI and then WWII, would the U.S. have supported a new Vietnam over
a recent comrade-in-arms, France? No. After Korea would it have supported a
communist Vietnam, in the middle of the Cold War? No.

Burns likes to equate Vietnam's revolt against France with the revolt of the U.S.
colonies against the British, seeming to say we should have supported their
efforts. But they were revolting against one of our friends, France, so that
support wasn't going to materialize. Then there's the whole we-know-better-
than-you mindset of the superpowers over the smaller powers. So, it wasn't going
to happen, but I was wondering. . .what if it had? How would that have changed
history?



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Sep 19 09:04:09 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Belated Deadguy Memorial Angel Wednesday Question

What percentage of the current slayers are working with the new watcher's council, sitting on the sideline, or actively working against them?

We have to distinguish between before and after "Elemental, My Dear Buffy", circa December 2003.

Before this time only around a quarter of the new slayers had been found and only a quarter of those had been contacted which might have meant only a cuppa of tea.

Afterwards, slayers scattered every which a way. A small number work under the umbrella of the Restoration Council. Buffy's group has a complement of 500, but it's only the number that stays the same. One of Buffy's ideas has been to let slayers fight the vampires, demons, and forces of darkness on a voluntary rotational basis. Consequently, calling the roll of the '500' in January will show different faces from calling the roll in May (and the roll drops below 500 during Spring break in the US, Lunar New Year in the Orient, and August in Europe).

Buffy is also experimenting with reserves, vacation slaying, flying squads, and "the Legionaries". In the background of all such ideas is Buffy's concern that a slayer does not feel forced to serve and that those who choose to fight the good fight are not over-risked. Finally for everyone's well-being, Buffy wants to keep tabs on every slayer, whether they pick up a stake or not.

Now for the numbers ...

* 1,800 known slayers1

Of which ...

* "500" slayers working with Buffy

* 1,000 slayers not exercising their Goddess-given right to patrol.

* 12 slayers working under the New Council

* 157 slayers behaving roguishly

* 120 "Fireflies", i.e. they're known to exist, but stay low or have gone dark. Now and then they surface - or flash (not that way!), thus the nickname.

Don't be counting expecting the numbers to add up. This isn't a math class.

1 The Long Way Home



Night All

WG



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Sep 19 03:11:45 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Meanwhile Trump is speaking at the UN. His speech appears to be...lucid and non-combative. But he as a bigger speech tomorrow where he may be more aggressive.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Sep 19 02:51:35 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Yes, different places and time. Vietminh in the North fighting the French.
Viet Cong in the South fighting Saigon and the Americans. The Viet Cong were
mostly a spent force after the 1968 Tet Offensive. Look up Khmer Rouge. *g*

CNN has been reporting that Mueller may be getting ready to indict Manafort
(for not registering as an agent of a foreign country?). The same may be true
for Flynn. In both cases it maybe as a way to pressure them to talk on other
matters.

During the same discussion legal report Jeffrey Toobin noted there's no
federal law called 'collusion'. He said the continuing story revolves around
alleged collusion between the Russians and Trump's folks, but there's no law
against "collusion".


WG



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Sep 19 02:15:07 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Tue Sep 19 02:16:26 2017
wolfguard One of the things that I didn't know was the origination of the term 'Viet Cong'. I didn't have much idea what it meant, as the program kept talking about Viet Minh. Now I understand.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Sep 19 01:54:52 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica,

The stories of Ho Chi Minh seeking Uncle Sam is just too good not to be in a
Ken Burns' documentary. I've heard and read it several times before. It may
even have been said Uncle Ho kept a copy of The United States Declaration
of Independence
under his pillow. I once took it at face value, but it
doesn't ring true.

I'd not at all be surprised if Ho made the rounds of the parties involved. Any
good insurgent leader would be checking out his options. And Ho was a
nationalist. He wanted Vietnam free from foreign control, but he had his own
dream of how the country would develop from there. It'd be communist-
authoritarian society (it's what it is today). The only way the US would have
worked with Ho would have been if he had fooled them on that goal. Ho did not.

WG



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Sep 19 01:26:23 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

I've not seen it and was somewhat turned off by the promo's. I was
enthralled by his documentary on the US Civil War (c.1990). It lead me to
read more on it and I came away thinking that Burns may have sometimes
chosen tropes over truths in some of the telling. Would he do the same with
US' experience of the Vietnam War? This is my understanding of the history
leading up to the Marines landing at Da Nang in 1965...

The Netherlands colonized the islands that would later become Indonesia.

Britain colonized the lands that would later become Pakistan, India,
Bangladesh, Burma, Malaysia and the city-state, Singapore.

Spain colonized the Philippines, but would lose them to the US after the
1898 war (Portugal controlled Macau).

France colonized Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam.

Thailand was allowed to remain quasi-independent so to serve as a buffer
state.

China's coastal areas became infested with European and American enclaves.


Following their attack on Pearl Harbor, Japan ran amok through this area
tossing out the Europeans and becoming the new master. Britain held on to
greater India and some of Burma.

After the Japanese defeat there was a time of instability as the previous
masters returned and tried to reclaim power. Cut to the French ...

Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam were referred to as French Indochina. France
fully intended to bring them back into the French fold. Vietnamese
nationalists resisted and there was an insurgency that lasted from the
French return, c.1946 to ~1954, when the French lost and left. An agreement
was signed dividing the country into North and South with an understanding
that a general election would be held a few years to decide the future of
the two countries. I do not believe that election was ever held, but I do
think as the election date approached more Vietnamese headed south than
headed north.

I do not know if Hanoi (North Vietnam) believed it would win that election,
but it certainly believed it could unite the country by force. While there
were local folks rebelling in the South, the North Vietnamese joined in by
infiltrating along the western borders, up and down South Vietnam (the Ho
Chi Minh Trail).1

During its war with Hanoi, France had asked the US for help. Not much was
given. Now though, the US provided more military assistance - advisers,
supplies, equipment, air support, and the like. CIA was running some
operations along the coast.

JFK inherited the problem. Laos was his first concern, but Vietnam edged
in. Kennedy was not happy with Saigon's president, Ngo Dinh Diem. The local
PTB sensed this and instigated a coup leading into the assassination of
Diem in November 1963.2 JFK was assassinated a few weeks later.

LBJ takes the helm. From listening to the released White House tape
recordings, LBJ had a lot of doubt about being able to much useful in
Vietnam, but also seemed to believe the US had too much at stake (or he had
too much at stake) in backing away. So what did he do?

LBJ became bombing Hanoi reasoning he could force them to back off or even
agree to a peace. Didn't happen. In August of 1964, two US naval
destroyers, Maddox and Turner Joy, reported they had been attacked during
the night by North Vietnamese patrol boats.3 On the tapes LBJ
appears very skeptical about the reports4 but uses the attacks
to push a resolution through Congress which said Southeast Asia was
important to the national security and the president had the power to use
what forces he needed to protect Southeast Asia - and I believe to protect
forces being used to protect Southeast Asia, i.e. South Vietnam.

The following March the Marines landed at Da Nang. I believe their first
mission was to protect US air bases. This takes us to early 1965.


1 Locals = Viet Cong, North = NVA (North Vietnamese Army), the
South Vietnamese Army was 'ARVN" (Army of the Republic of Vietnam)

2 People debate how involved the Kennedy administration was in
the coup. From a far distance, I suspect he was at least aware of the pot
boiling and didn't try to stop it, but was surprised at the assassination.

3 I've read what's probably the defining book on that night on
the Tonkin Gulf. It's heavily sourced from the crews of Maddox and
Turner Joy. You can read one man saying. ~ I saw a torpedo pass by
us ~ and a Chief on the same ship who had served against the Japanese
saying, ~ There were no torpedoes in the water. Choose your side.

4 LBJ served in the Navy, but I don't know his record.



WG



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Tue Sep 19 01:22:07 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
ChristopherMarlowe--I
watched it too and am getting
ready to watch the second
installment--fascinating! What
really struck me was how Ho Chi
Minh came to the U.S. for help
against the French more than once,
as a young man after WWI, after
WWII and yet again after the
Korean War. What if we'd have
stepped in at any one of those
times--history is full of what
ifs, unfortunately :(

cc wolfguard


Happy Birthday Jaan Quidam!



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Sep 18 23:48:57 2017 151.159.170.178) [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard

I watched the first episode of Ken
burns Vietnam war doc. I am
disappointed with myself for not
truly realizing all that came
before the war even started.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Sep 18 23:21:22 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
heading for a workshop tonight....I will be back later!



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Sep 18 22:50:57 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
In the spirit of the hurricanes, I watched a lecture on the
structures and dynamics of hurricanes. As I understood it, the quick and
dirty explanation for what causes a hurricane is the formation of an
extreme low pressure area over the ocean which causes winds to rush in from
all around. Due to the coriolis effect the winds spiral inward towards the
center and when they meet they are pushed upwards (again as I understand).

The professor noted three factors that could hamper or even prevent a
hurricane from forming...

1) Ocean 'skin' temperature (in context I took 'skin' to be synonymous with
'surface', but I could be wrong). This temperature has to be 81 degrees
Fahrenheit or higher for hurricanes to develop.

2) Wind shear can possibly break-up a hurricane's structure. Wind shear is
a change in speed or direction of the winds. It appears hurricanes need
calm weather to best develop.

3) Too close to the Equator and the coriolis effect is not felt. As I
remember, the distance was around 5 degrees north and south of the Equator.


A few days later I listened to CNN talk with a climate scientist based at
some university in Texas. Among the things the professor said ...

1) The number of hurricanes we have experienced (or experienced this
season) was not due to climate change, but chance.

OTOH

2) The amount of rainfall during the hurricanes was due to climate change
(the warmer the air, the more water vapor it can hold).

3) The increased storm surge was due to climate change (there are several
factors at play here).

4) The increased intensity was due to climate change (warmer ocean, more
energy to feed off of).



WG



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Sep 18 22:45:56 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: TV
Question: Pinky Tuscadero was the girlfriend of what character on Happy Days?
Answer: Fonzie

Trivia master of none!



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Sep 18 21:38:18 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
yay clarrie!

Goodbye Blue Monday!



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Sep 18 17:24:58 2017 165.225.38.68) [Edit/Delete]
Still training some and new people still need lots of help. And busy busy busy.

So posting is sporadic.

COMMA - My first assignment out of tech school in the Air Force was at Pope AFB, which is smack in the middle of Fort Bragg. I was assigned to 3rd MAPS. We used to haul the 82nd around. I remember escorting those airborne troopers out onto the flightline to make sure they'd jump out of the right airplane. :-)

Sadly, it's not Pope Air Force Base anymore. The Army took it over, and it's Pope Field now.



^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Mon Sep 18 16:52:07 2017 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
Seniors Willow Rosenberg and Xander Harris were sitting on a bench outside the school before classes; it was a traditionally fine morning. Junior Jared Millek walked up to them and they turned and looked at him silently and with blank expressions, knowing he had something he felt he needed to tell them.

"Hi, guys, I figured I'd do a trial run with you since you're less likely to kill me than Buffy or Giles. Sorry I Steve Urkel-ed up that demon last night."

The two older teens looked at each other, and then Xander said, "I notice you didn't mention apologizing to Faith."

"Yee-eah, I figured with her and Mr. Price the safest thing would be to let them just forget about it instead of apologizing. They might not settle for a figurative killing"

"Well, I can forgive you, Jared, we've faced worse," said Willow, and Xander sort of nodded affirmatively.

"Thanks, it means more than you might believe. That Cutter was quite an interesting guy, wasn't he? Although you sort of seemed more interested in the picture of his late family, Willow."

"Yes, I can see why losing them to demons would make him want to hunt them. Forget that his stepdaughter looked like me, and their two little girls looking like Baby Buffy and Baby Harmony, his wife; I don't think I've ever seen a woman who looked more beautiful to me. Funny, I remember how I felt, but I can't really remember what she looked like."

Jared smiled a bit and said, "I do. What a face, I mean, those eyes, so full of secrets she'd never choose to tell, and those cheekbones, not to mention the lips."

Xander said, "From the way you were talking last night, you seemed more interested in her nose."

Jared bristled a bit, only mostly kidding, "Hey, anytime I see somebody with enough up front to fit in with my own relatives, I get a lift from it. Is he staying around any length of time?"

Willow said, "Well, like he said, he doesn't stick around anywhere too long, but we discussed some ways of laying whatever's rising on Kingman's Bluff. And I won't tell you what they are, Nosey, so just stay home tonight."


"Hey, like I said, there are some people I want to avoid for a couple days," and with a half-smile, Jared made his way to the school doorway.
_______________________________________________________



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Sep 18 14:51:48 2017 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: TV
Question: Pinky Tuscadero was the girlfriend of what character on Happy Days?



^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Mon Sep 18 14:03:18 2017 70.198.37.202) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a big bronze cheer for
clarrie!

yay clarrie!

Goodbye Blue Monday!



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Sep 18 11:53:25 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Monday, September 18th 2017 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!


Ana
GlassesNanny
Jaan Quidam
SMGfan

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Ana, GlassesNanny, Jaan Quidam, SMGfan!



No, no, no, sir. No more chick pit for you. Come on. Riley, 'Buffy vs Dracula''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Sep 18 03:58:14 2017 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Maverick - Being a music major isn't necessarily sinister. The man who taught me a lot about coding was a music major. Back in the day, computer courses did not turn out finished programmers, and employers were looking for people who might have the right mindset who could learn on the job. I was told that math, history, and music majors were areas that seemed fruitful for providing trainable programmers. However that was 40+ years ago. I doubt that managers use the same criteria any more. *g* Security is enormously more complex than it used to be, and university courses and degrees provide serious training and mean a great deal now - if one is going to do the actual work. She was a manager. It's lovely if one's manager actually understands what one does, but that can't be guaranteed, and one can only hope that a manager has some skill in managing the people who do the actual work, and in directing the work. Since the problem apparently resulted from patches for known security problems not being applied, there was evidently some, ah, incompetence difficulty.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Sep 17 21:41:51 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Maverick I was reading about Equifax and I was wondering what to do, but a local investment advisor said not to panic, and recommended just a credit alert.



^ v
Maverick says:
(Sun Sep 17 18:09:16 2017 68.51.139.52) [Edit/Delete]
Down the Rabbit Hole: Equifax (a Credit Reporting Agency that JUST sustained a data breach that put all of our credit security at risk) had hired a Music Major as the Company's Chief Security Officer, and, oddly, she has just retired.


R.I.P.: Harry Dean Stanton Methinks his best role was as the leader (of a Mormon cult) that took another young wife in "Big Love" the series.


Maverick


Vehicle




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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Sep 17 14:45:26 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Sunday, September 17th 2017 C.E.

We have ONE (1) Birthdays!

LB

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to LBe!



Harmony: Somebody remembered to pick me up the sweetest unicorn. Guess someone was feeling guilty for standing me up in tenth grade. Brad: What? Had to get her something. She sired me. Peaches: Sire-whipped. 'Real Me' '

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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lostinamerica says:
(Sun Sep 17 12:41:11 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
Yeah, that was weird yesterday--what
happened? Thanks Phoenix!



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Sep 17 02:09:56 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
oh cool...Mucho thanks to Phoenix!



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wolfguard says:
(Sun Sep 17 00:56:57 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Thanks Phoenix!

WG



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Comma says:
(Sun Sep 17 00:55:09 2017 75.143.154.113) [Edit/Delete]
We are back!

I am at Fort Bragg. Note: More Americans were killed in training, 1942-1944, than died on D-Day.

Comma



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white wings says:
(Sun Sep 17 00:17:43 2017 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe - I'm glad to see that the Beta is hereabouts!

Phoenix - Thanks!



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Sep 15 01:45:49 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
anyone else herebouts?



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Sep 15 01:16:11 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
finally home, went to have pizza with a friend tonight.



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 14 23:09:15 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper The Air quality is a little poor tonight, this time due to some local minor fires. Mother Nature is being extra nasty these days.



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Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Sep 14 22:38:38 2017 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial P ursuit

Category: TV
Question: What was the profession of Felix Unger on the TV sitcom The Odd Couple?
Answer: Profession Fussbudget *g*

Trivia Master, Agent Cooper!

Agent Cooper

Looks Like we're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel next week! Woot!



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Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Sep 14 18:42:34 2017 165.225.38.68) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Professional Fuss Budget.



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wolfguard says:
(Thu Sep 14 17:58:59 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Belated Yay Myst!


A very good DGMAWQ. It's pushed me into research mode. *g*


WG



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Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Sep 14 15:04:36 2017 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial P ursuit

Category: TV
Question: What was the profession of Felix Unger on the TV sitcom The Odd Couple?



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Thu Sep 14 13:29:08 2017 73.58.128.92) [Edit/Delete]
Yay! Aramina!



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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Sep 14 12:55:40 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Thursday, September 14th 2017 C.E.

We have SEVEN (7) Birthdays!


Diablo
grabodddream
Karisma
Joey Emma
SlvrStar
st george
Texaswook

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Diablo, grabodddream, Karisma, Joey Emma
SlvrStar, st george, TexaswookMarie!



Angel: Yeah, I never told anyone about this, but I-I liked your poems. Spike: You like Barry Manilow. 'Hell Bound''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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YayOfTheDay says:
(Thu Sep 14 11:20:39 2017 24.3.106.169) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for aramina!

yay aramina!


Happy CD Thursday!



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 14 03:37:13 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Glad she is safe! I don't think I've ever experienced an earthquake. The closest I've come is when someone next door drops something very very heavy and you feel the vibrations and hear the sounds.



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wolfguard says:
(Thu Sep 14 01:55:32 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

The one who lives and works in Mexico City experienced the recent earthquake.
It happened during the night. Many of the people in the ~apartment went to the
roof, because it's considered safer than going out into the streets and
risking being hit by falling objects. She said the quake lasted around a
minute. Apparently there were around 20 after-shocks.

WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 14 01:34:06 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard What's the latest on your goddaughters?



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Sep 14 00:38:27 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
well. so much for hosting my first conference call...we wound up having the discussion on facebook!



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Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Sep 13 23:11:23 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
I really need a new job that allows me to play on the internet!


Sunnydales Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What was the name of Lornes bar/lounge?
Answer: Caritas

Trivia Lounge Lizard: OldManFan and wolfguard!



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wolfguard says:
(Wed Sep 13 21:05:21 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
DaddyCatALSO,

There's quite a market for fawns in some parts of the dimensions. So either
there are remnants of Dark-Willow haunting Will or she's keeping tabs on the
herds.

WG



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DaddyCatALSO says:
(Wed Sep 13 19:21:07 2017 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I can *swear* I can hear David and Andy saying those lines!

"deer-hunter" Come on, she did it once, as far as we know! *weg



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wolfguard says:
(Wed Sep 13 18:18:29 2017 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Drive-By


Trivia Girl,

Lorne's

Seriously, no one in the know refers to it asCaritas


ANGEL
Why did you come to LA?

LORNE
For the peace and quiet.

ANGEL
There's no peace and quiet in LA.

LORNE
I was misinformed.

apologies to Casablanca *g*



Belated Deadguy Memorial Buffy Tuesday Question

At this point in their lives, which scooby has been to the most national parks and which has visited the most world capitals?

Willow has been to the most national parks. She's quite the deer-hunter.

In his work for the New Council, Giles has been to the most capitals - at least to land and pick-up a rental to drive to ... well, that's confidential.


WG



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OldManFan says:
(Wed Sep 13 17:50:35 2017 24.3.106.169) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl - Caritas.

OMF



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Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Sep 13 15:06:10 2017 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydales Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What was the name of Lornes bar/lounge?



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Sep 13 13:03:10 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Wednesday, September 13th 2017 C.E.

We have TWO (2) Birthdays!


FOSMan
Mintaka

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to FOSMan, Mintaka!



Early: Where'd she go? Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's not incorporeally possessing a space ship. Don't look at me. 'Objects In Space''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 13 12:58:02 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
yay myst!

Kind of a variation of the 'marry, kill or sex' challenge.

I'll say 10, 80, 10 percent in that order.


Happy Non-Angel Wednesday!



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YayOfTheDay says:
(Wed Sep 13 11:23:07 2017 24.3.106.169) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for myst!

yay myst!

today's deadguy memorial angel wednesday question is brought to you by:

the new watcher's council - no longer old men ordering around young women

what percentage of the current slayers are working with the new watcher's council, sitting on the sideline, or actively working against them?


Happy Non-Angel Wednesday!



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wolfguard says:
(Wed Sep 13 03:08:08 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

My knowledge of Bannon is limited. I've read a few articles, listened to
the Sixty Minutes interview, and catch bits and pieces of news
stories. My impression is he believes the U.S. has been in decline, in part
from poor policy choices1, in part from being taken advantage of
by other countries.2 He describes his view as ~Economic
Nationalism. As I recall, he referenced early US history as an example of
what sort of international economic policies we should use (Hamiltonian).
These sort of policies are not ones that would have been advocated by Adam
Smith or David Ricardo (division of labor, trade, comparative advantage,
etc.).

For what it's worth, very few countries follow the dictates of free trade
if the particulars are seen as detrimental to domestic well-being. OTOH,
some of your most fastest growing economies were, of necessity, free trade
practitioners (Hong Kong, Singapore). One can find cases for and against
Bannon's economic policies.

1 If you didn't see the interview, Bannon strongly criticized
the Bush administration for invading Iraq (Rice, Cheney, etc.)

2 The US created the world order that followed the end of WWII.
After the USSR ended, the US was the hegemon for around ten years. In both
cases, the US allowed itself to be taken advantage of, because it was seen
as one way to create and sustain that order. If you want to to be the
Patron of the world - be listened to and deferred to - then you got to pay
the upkeep and distribute goodies. One of the signs of a hegemon in decline
is an inability or unwillingness to continue doing it.


WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 13 02:34:21 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I wonder what Bannon would have said or did say about abortion, contraceptives and same-sex marriage? REligion certainly is involved and still continues to be involved in policy at all levels of government.



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wolfguard says:
(Wed Sep 13 01:57:22 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

The opposition candidates to Putin have done better than in past elections.
*g*


What about the Pope? He said ~ Those who deny (climate change) should speak
to the scientists. And added something from the Old Testament about ~Man
being stupid ... the only creature who trips over the same stone twice.

To play the Devil's advocate, when Charlie Rose asked Steve Bannon about
the Catholic Church's stance (I believe on immigration). Bannon replied,
~~The cardinals and bishops can speak on doctrine but not policy (or he may
have said/meant ~Catholics have to obey statements on Church doctrine but
not comments on politics/policy.1


What about Hillary Clinton? She's making the rounds on her new book. There
was an interview with authors ~Allen and Parnes about her. They had written
two books, one about her (HRC?) and one about her recent campaign
(Shattered). The last question they were asked, ~ If Hillary Clinton
were to explain the reason for her loss in one word, what would that one
word be? Allen/Parnes: Emails.


1 A variation on ~ give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to the
Lord what is the Lord's? Or perhaps a tone above a former Republican
Secretary of Agriculture Butz who commented on another Pope's words on
contraceptives, ~ If you don't play the game, you don't make the rules
(said in fake Italian accent) He may have gotten dismissed on this remark.



WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 13 01:19:38 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
and I see there is a documentary on Martin Luther tonight!



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Sep 13 00:39:39 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard All seems relatively quiet on the Trump front. So what is there to talk about? *g*



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Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Sep 12 23:20:27 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What was the name of Willow and Tara's cat?
Answer: Miss Kitty FAntastico!

Triva Cat Fancier: Agent Cooper

Agent Cooper I take it that you don't favor the Packers chances this year? *g*



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Sep 12 23:13:45 2017 64.179.155.24) [Edit/Delete]
home!



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wolfguard says:
(Tue Sep 12 20:46:51 2017 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
DaddyCatALSO,

Not to my knowledge. "Wasting away" made me think of Marcie in Out of Mind,
Out of Sight
. Being a first season guest actor/character, I looked for
another.

WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Sep 12 17:55:56 2017 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
yay the partyman!



at this point in their lives, which scooby has been to the most national parks and which has visited the most world capitals?

I think Xander has done some roadtripping and I can certainly see him continuing that. Not sure he would be too interested world capitials though, he would think Paris and similar cities would be cool!

Anya probably has visited the most capitals, as a vengeance demon.


Happy Non-Buffy Tuesday!


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