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^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Nov 19 05:44:00 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday Emerald, Miss Rellie, SarahNicole, and Willow's Acolyte!

Global warming brought winter to me, generally bypassing fall. Of course in the absence of a front (courtesy of Christopher Marlowe or possibly lostinamerica), winter generally consists of highs in the low 50s, occasionally with rain. It is possible that I won't gain a great deal of sympathy for it. *g*

I did, however, see a shooting star last night before the clouds completely moved in. Only one. I went out late and the clouds moved fast.

Agent Cooper - Sun? Don't be silly. Where would we get one of those? ;-)

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Nov 18 23:44:09 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper Hey, how did your Sunday go?

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Agent Cooper says:
(Sun Nov 18 17:53:27 2018 [Edit/Delete]
"If only there were some external factor that could account for the variations in global temperature. Such a hypothetical external factor would have to be extremely large, though -- on the order of magnitude of our own Sun."

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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Nov 18 17:13:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Sunday November 18th 2018 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!

Elizabeth Anne Allen as the rat & witch, Amy Madison
Miss Rellie
Willow's Acolyte

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to dob, Elizabeth Anne Allen as the rat & witch, Amy Madison, Emerald, Miss Rellie, SarahNicole, Willow's Acolyte!

I am not...I am not the damsel in distress. I am not some case. I have to work this. I've lived in a cave for 5 years in a world where they killed my kind like cattle. I am not going to be cut down by some monster flu. I am better than that. What a very scared I am. Fred, 'A Hole in the World'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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wolfguard says:
(Sun Nov 18 07:29:09 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I'm going to reply to your points in the order presented:

(1) I was not comparing CO2 and cyanide in terms of toxicity. You believe,
wrongly, that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is so dwarfed by the
amounts of nitrogen, oxygen, and water vapor that it cannot be a major
factor in the greenhouse effect. This is not an uncommon line of reasoning
for folks who have forgotten or not learned their chemistry.

Consider a person who accidentally swallows a wad of gum. Unless the gum
gets stuck and completely blocks the windpipe, the person will likely
survive the incident. OTOH, ingesting 1-3 mg of cyanide will kill you. Now
I've looked up the weight of a stick of gum and one search result said 1.9
grams. Round that up to 2 grams. There are 1,000 mg in 1 gram. So an average
stick of gum weighs 2,000 times as much as the 1 mg lethal dose of cyanide.

Relative amounts can be important, but the chemical processes in a given
system have to be considered and they often are more important in the
behavior of the system.


(2) I was not referencing those human vital signs to make a point on heat,
but to make a point on range and sensitivity. As I recall, you work or have
worked in accounting/finance. Have you ever conducted sensitivity analysis
with respect to business operations?

(3) You're use of the sports stadium analysis is a manifestation of the same
mistaken reasoning explored in #1 above. The climate scientist's use in the
lecture was spot on.

(4) Of course I remember Monte Hieb: You posted his work a year or so ago. I
read it. I replied noting three or four flaws in his reasoning, though I
wrote of them as they would be understood by someone with some fluency in
earth science. Your replies at the time did not speak to these concepts, but
kept referring back to Hieb's article which lead me to believe you're basing
your 'reasoning' on his reasoning rather than on applying your knowledge of
earth science. This is also a common response from people who read some
articles, but don't really have a handle on the subject the article

Let's return again to Hieb. He notes water vapor is the major greenhouse gas
in the atmosphere. Absolutely true and every introductory meteorology or
climate science class teaches this fact. Hieb reasons because there's so
much more water vapor than CO2, that the CO2 is irrelevant to global
warming. And Hieb is wrong and he's wrong because he's not thinking of the
atmosphere as a system with stocks and flows. He's missed the history.

I went in more detail on this a year or so ago when first replying to Hieb's
article. And I did not elaborate, because I wanted to see if you could
figure it out for yourself, if only to argue against the results. But you've

So I'll give you a hint: What's the difference between the total amount of
water vapor and the total amount of atmospheric CO2 in AD 1600 and the total
amount of water vapor and atmospheric CO2 in 2018?

1 Excepting human-made substances, everything on Earth is natural
so saying something pollutes the environment is expressing a value
judgement. Plastic residue in the ocean will kill or injure sea life, but
the Earth doesn't care. Over time, some sea life will likely adapt to make
use of the plastics - and the Earth won't care. People care - or do not.
Some people like wolves, some do not. Once people took pride in smokestacks,
now most do not. Some people will swim in a polluted Ganges, some will not.

Essentially, pollution is a social issue. Arguing that CO2 is not creating a
problem because it's natural is trite. It's so stupid that one wonders
whether it's an attempt at distraction. Then maybe again it's just


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wolfguard says:
(Sun Nov 18 05:59:59 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Here now *g*




What's the principle behind your decision to minimize your use of Amazon?


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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Nov 17 15:15:35 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Saturday, November 17th 2018 C.E.

We have SEVEN (7) Birthdays!

Vanessa's Hubby

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Divaliving, Dukessa, Masquerade, Miskatonic, Pam, Vanessa's Hubby, Wolvie!

When you look back at this, in the three seconds it'll take you to turn to dust, I think you'll find the mistake was touching my stuff. Buffy, 'The Freshman'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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lostinamerica says:
(Sat Nov 17 13:25:26 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper--Qu'est-ce que c'est, "Climatron?" Are you in one
of the areas that received more snow than predicted?

*That was fun, wasn't it Boris, some of them were stuck in their
cars for HOURS :)*

wolfguard--This is the one Sarah was wearing, it's on Amazon:

Except it's on Amazon, which I try to use as little as possible on principle, and
now less than ever since we're getting a dreaded "enrichment" center that my
oldest daughter noted will only be enriching their pockets and the new HQ2 in
Long Island will be disrupting plans for affordable housing there :(

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Maverick says:
(Sat Nov 17 09:14:13 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: Okay, I said "pollution" to head off your cyanide comparison. I maybe should have said "non toxic." CO2 is not the same as cyanide. You can breathe in CO2 mixed with oxygen and it just makes you yawn. Only if you don't get ANY oxygen because of ONLY CO2 are you in any trouble. (I don't know if you could suffocate a plant by giving it only pure oxygen and nothing else. Probably.) Maybe carbon monoxide CO is more like cyanide. Or maybe ozone O3.

I don't understand why you listed Vital Signs. With CO2, we're only talking heat, right?

Finally, your mixing of players with crowd, and saying they're more significant as a greenhouse gas is all mixed up. CO2 is a trace gas. Remember Monte Heib? Monte Heib's Global Warming, a Closer Look at the Numbers. Some of the "other" molecules will absorb more heat than others (Methane and Nitrous Oxide, for instance.) The football stadium analogy, however, is just a way to get a mental handle on the proportional concentrations of CO2. Adding the team player thingy is just bogus.

In the meantime, have a look at Dr. Tony Phillips' (of NASA) sunspot analysis. Funny how the Sun seems to always get left out of the Global Warming arguments.


Please Don't Me Be Misunderstood

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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 17 04:22:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I've never said CO2 was a pollutant. Off your other points ...

Some Human Vital Signs

- Pulse

- Blood Pressure

- Temperature

What's too much? What's too little?

Small Amounts

- How much cyanide is too much? What is a lethal dose's weight relative to
total body weight?

- Here I could list a number of other poisons, but will put it off for now.

Off your sport stadium analogy, just the other night I listened to a
meteorologist make the same analogy, i.e. the crowd in the stadium
representing all the nitrogen and oxygen molecules in the atmosphere and the
team players representing CO2. And which had the most impact on the system?
The CO2 molecules represented by the players.


^ v
Maverick says:
(Sat Nov 17 03:47:29 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sat Nov 17 03:58:21 2018
Wolfguard: Oh, I remember your three beliefs. However, CO2 is not pollution. It is necessary for human and plant life. Also, the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere is so low that if you (I have) went to a football game in Michigan Stadium where the seating capacity is 100,000 and they were all molecules of air, CO2 would only be 40 of them. (Methinks humidity would further dilute this.) AND only maybe 10 of the 40 can be attributed to man-made fuel burning--the rest are natural sources of CO2 such as you and I. There are MANY other sources of warming such as widespread paving over grass AND those related to the Sun (and sunspots) on the link I just provided.


Wild Horses

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Maverick says:
(Sat Nov 17 03:30:12 2018 [Edit/Delete]
R. I. P. William Goldman, Screenwriter

Christopher Marlowe: Michigan. Election went badly. They elected Gretchen Whitmer Governor. Whitmer was formerly in the Michigan House and in the Michigan Senate. She ran on the statement "Fix the damn roads." The Republican guy, Bill Schuette, who ran against her was the former Attorney General. He had had two big deals during his tenure: the Flint (tainted) water fiasco and the Dr. Larry Nassar (of Michigan State University) who was convicted of molesting gymnists while he gave them treatments for injuries. Schuette was somber and plodding; Whitmer was attractive and vivacious. I hope she fixes the roads but I fear her other priorities are out of line for Michigan. Michigan has benefited from the Trump economy (jobs coming back) AND they finally have a pretty smart mayor in Detroit. I believe Michigan will slip back to old habits and fritter away assets and opportunities.


A Whiter Shade of Pale

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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 17 02:28:08 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I will take a look at it. However, remember my position on anthropogenic
global warming (AGW) is based on three basic science facts and one
historical fact ...

The Three Science Facts

(1) The Greenhouse Effect is real.

(2) Carbon Dioxide is a greenhouse gas.1

(3) One of the by-products of burning fossil fuels is carbon dioxide.

The Historical Fact

The industrial revolution / evolution has been powered by fossil fuels and
this use has accelerated over this period. The more fossil fuels burned, the
more CO2 produced, the greater the amount of heat trapped through the
Greenhouse effect. It's fundamentally true.

Is the world warming, i.e. the average global temperature rising? A number
of plant and animal species have changed their seasonal migration ranges
reflecting shorter winters and longer summers. And of course, the decreasing
summer Arctic ice pack.

The world is warming. It's warming = in small or large part - due to human
consumption of fossil fuels. If you think that's debatable, you're denying
reality. OTOH, there are issues derived from AGW that are worthy of debate.

1 Chanting "Water Vapor! Water Vapor!" tells me the chanter isn't
thinking through the system.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 17 01:23:13 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Maverick Not sure which state you are in, but how did elections go there?

^ v
Maverick says:
(Fri Nov 16 23:24:43 2018 [Edit/Delete]

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Nov 16 22:51:07 2018 [Edit/Delete]
home early for once!

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Nov 16 20:55:42 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wonder if that damn cat they keep singing about is De-Clawed.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Nov 16 17:09:33 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Year of the cat.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Nov 16 14:10:55 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I wonder if you could De-Clone someone. Like Xander. He got De-Cloned.

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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Nov 16 13:23:17 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Friday November 16th 2018 C.E.

We have ELEVEN (11) Birthdays!

Dru da Hanson Slayer
Dru Hill
Fanged Eddie
Luc the Big Pile of Dust

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to BLuCaSBaBe2000, Dru da Hanson Slayer
Dru Hill, Fanged Eddie, leanne, Luc the Big Pile of Dust, mairin, niamh, sera, Thirdcross, YesPlease!

Seems like everyone's got a tale to tell. Mal, 'Safe''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Nov 16 13:11:07 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay myst!

Happy Thank Joss It's Frida as well as Friday!

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YayOfTheDay says:
(Fri Nov 16 12:47:13 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for myst!

yay myst!

Happy Thank Joss It's Friday!

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lostinamerica says:
(Fri Nov 16 11:32:48 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard--Boy, did you see the artwork on some of those t-shirts,
yeesh ;)

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Maverick says:
(Fri Nov 16 07:12:49 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe: Decolonization and Defecation could be the same.

Wolfguard: The Chill of the Solar Minimum was written by Dr. Tony Phillips who presents Spaceweather on a daily basis. The link goes to the current day's information page but there is an archive query on the page that allows one to view previous day's pages and info.


You've Got It All (Over Him)

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Nov 16 04:08:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
apologies for the lack of postage, long shifts at work and long event-planning stuff. I will be back to abnormal right after the 20th!

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