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^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 21 09:33:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl

Only just noticed the question. Seriously, no-one's answered it yet? For once, I know this one without having to look it up.

The name of the shark in Jaws given to it behind the scenes is:


^ v
Bitca says:
(Sat Jul 21 06:44:33 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Panting, having just sprinted miles to the
Bronze after hearing the news...

Hi, friends!

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 21 05:13:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Bawston et al

If you want to post links, try
using Microsoft Edge as your
Browser if you have it. For some
reason, Google Chrome is always
compressed like this while Edge
(and Explorer before it) was not.
You can see the difference
between my two posts, I use Edge
when I want to post a link.

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 21 03:58:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sat Jul 21 04:16:55 2018
Here's another article.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer Is Getting Rebooted, With an Emphasis on Diversity

I'm with all the comments which say "Why not just set it in the future of the show? It even set up that as an ending."

Maybe there's someone we could write to to suggest that for all the good it might do.

If they're doing this to keep brand recognition as some people think, how about the reason for naming this character Buffy is because it's inspired by the famous slayer Buffy. That could work, perhaps? Should we suggest that, then? (You know, eventually have a "Seriously, your name is also Buffy?" moment.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 21 02:49:15 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I share your trepidation. *g* OTOH, there have been many 'covers' of Holmes
and Watson and some have been quite good. Bond carries on from actor to actor.
And then there's Star Trek. After the original was cancelled Leonard
Nimoy was approached on doing a spin-off. He didn't think it would work, said
something along the lines of lighting doesn't strike twice in the same place.

As to Christopher Marlowe's concerns on time and place, I believe the
themes of BtVS are timeless. True the pop culture references may be old, but
in a new version, new pop references, eh? *g* Anyway, I've been re-watching
some select episodes and they still work for me. Last night watched
Phases and Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered. Later tonight,
Killed by Death.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 21 02:23:50 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Bawston Hi! I saw mention of that, but didn't quite dive into the article. I have mixed feelings. Buffy worked in a particular time, I'm not sure how it would work today.

^ v
Bawston says:
(Sat Jul 21 01:31:44 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Hello all! *waves to ChristopherMarlow*

I saw news about a possible Buffy reboot
and my first impulse was to come here to
see what people thought of it:
1128888 (Im sorry, I tried to hyperlink it but it didnt work)

I feel a lot of trepidation about it but would
keep an open mind and hope for the best.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 20 22:31:48 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I was in the ballpark at least!

^ v
Comma says:
(Fri Jul 20 19:03:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper and wolfguard:

Not in my Battalion, but in a sister Battalion, during Desert Shield, a First Lieutenant received a 'Dear John' letter from his wife. She could not bear being alone and wanted out of their marriage. The 1LT went to his Battalion Commander and ask to be allowed to take leave, return to the states, and try and straighten his married life out. The Battalion Commander said in no uncertain term, NO! The 1LT then threaten to run over the Battalion Commander with his HUMVEE . The Bn CO, knowing that the 1Lt was under a great amount of stress, took the Lt's driving license away from him, gave the LT a driver, and ordered the driver only to take the LT to the area he worked at and back to the tent area.

Long story ahort, the Bn CO did not take the LT's weapon away. I was the one, who after hearing the gun shot at around 10 AM one morning, found the Lt dead in one of the latrines.

The 101st actually sent the wife flowers. Because he destroyed military property, himself, I do not know if she received the military insurance.

The battalion Commander retired before Desert Storm started. From then on, any show of mental problems, we took the weapons away first.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 20 18:56:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Hey lookit me!!! I'm posting mid-day!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 20 18:35:31 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Both a pound of quarters and a pound of dimes are worth $20. *g*

Agent Cooper,

Two ways to counter 'panic'.

One is controlled breathing. There are different names for it, but current
popular name is "tactical breathing".1 If you google the phrase
you can find videos on how to do it.

Second is to develop a simple conditioned response to the relevant stimulus
- yelling, screaming, gunfire, etc. Here's the reason: When the unexpected -
especially the scary unexpected - happens, most of us freeze. This begins as
an unconditioned response (WTF?!), but quickly moves to a chemical dump that
readies the body to flee or flight. Unfortunately this will also begin to
degrade our ability to do deep thinking or engage in fine motor movements.
The advantage in developing the conditioned response is it decreases the
freeze time, because you're first action has started.

The first action can be as simple as crouching behind cover and extending
your senses.

An example of denial: There was a woman who survived the attack on the Twin
Towers on 9-11 (She had also been there for the earlier attack in 1993). She
was in the first tower and was heading down the steps, cursing herself for
not quitting her job after the 1993 attack, when the second tower was hit.
Her first thought on learning of the hit on the second tower - Why were
these pilots racing each other?!?

On armed guards: One night in July 1999, a man killed his wife and two kids.
The next day he went to his job as a day trader. Walked pass security as he
always did and once he got into his office he opened his brief case, took
out his guns and started shooting. At some point he decided to leave the
building and crossed the street to a neighboring business complex where he
shot people in two different offices. He then fled the area.

A few hours later, law enforcement cornered him as a gas station/convenient
store (?) around 30 miles north of Atlanta. He committed suicide inside his

I don't remember if he strangled his wife or beat her with a blunt
instrument. As I remember, he used a blunt instrument on his kids while they
were asleep (as I remember he left a note saying he didn't want them to have
to ~~~live in this world). He used handguns on his victims at the office

This happened in Atlanta. I spoke to a security guard - not one who worked
at either complex - who replied to what he would have done when the shooter
entered the building, "Good morning, sir" (because the shooter worked there
and the guns were in his briefcase).

Police in School: I read the following story, told by a cop. He and his
partner had to visit a high school on some minor matter (paperwork). As they
were walking down a hallway to leave, a kid came running towards them
screaming and behind him came another kid with a gun screaming ~~ Die MF!!!
Both cops drew their guns and yelled for the kid to drop his gun. He froze,
then fell to the ground in a fetal position ...

The rest of the story: The two kids were part of a school sponsored event on
school violence. They were doing a role-playing exercise. When the cops had
stopped by the main office after arriving, no one at the desk had told them
about the program. The cop said he believed one reason the kid did not get
shot, between freezing and dropping, was that both cops were still carrying
revolvers with the heavier trigger pull.

An excellent book on surviving disasters is Amanda Ripley's, The
Unthinkable: who survives when disasters strike - and why

1 Today, Buffy would wear a tactical crucifix and it would
probably be colored black. *g*


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Jul 20 13:40:41 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: You actually summed up the course perfectly. You could have taught it. :-)

That was it. You just went over all the helpful parts. The trainer did stress the part about not denying the event. How people are conditioned not to believe anything serious is going on "who's letting off fireworks?" and wait too late to act. He gave a couple of specific examples where that got more people killed, a notable one was that nightclub fire that happened a few years ago.

The trainer went over trying not to panic and staying as calm as possible. Realistically, he said, you won't be calm but don't panic. Panic will get you killed.

He did mention all the practical stuff, about the difference between sight cover and bullet cover, etc. He also mentioned that simple door wedges are useful, they can delay the person from getting in. Apparently a wedged door is pretty hard to open. So he said have one at every door.

As you did, he made special mention of the short time of the events, that they used to be over in 4-6 minutes. Used to, but that stat isn't true anymore. The pattern used to be that the shooter would take his own life after a quick attack, but recently the trend has been that the the perp(s) want to fight and will try to stay alive as long as possible or try and escape to kill more.

This is (the trainer said) partly because terrorism is becoming more of a factor in these shootings rather than workplace violence. He said intelligence tells law enforcement that as ISIS and the Taliban can't maintain a conventional battlefield overseas anymore their offensive focus will shift back to the West and they will carry out more attacks here. It's inevitable.

Plus, as political tension heats up here, they are worried about that too.

Although, even with all that, (the trainer said) if this happens the stats say it's still more than likely it's a disgruntled co-worker. That's still the most common attack. And these folks are likely to now the building and the defense measures, so that's bad.

All in all, it was mostly just common sense stuff, the main point being know where the exits are and RUN. That was plan A and B. Plan C was hide or fight.

Anyway, it was all very depressing. My boss said it made her want to apply for a handgun. I don't blame her. I doubt they'd let her carry here at work though. I wish we had armed security.

I worry most about my kids at school, but I take a little solace in the fact that there's an armed DARE officer at the middle school all the time. And the officer teaches the DARE class, yeah, but I sort of suspect this is kind of a "cover" to have an armed police presence there. I'm fine with it either way.

I wish they'd put armed police in all the schools, honestly.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Jul 20 12:44:50 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit Bonus Friday edition!

Category: Movies
Question: What was the name given to the mechanical shark from JAWS?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Jul 20 12:31:33 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Friday July 20th 2018 C.E.

We have TWO (2) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Circa, Vanessa#2!

I can hurt a demon!! That's right. I'm back. And I'm a BLOODY ANIMAL! Spike, 'Doomed'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 20 12:22:06 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay janni!

Happy Thank Joss It's Friday!

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Fri Jul 20 12:13:32 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for janni!

yay janni!

Happy Thank Joss It's Friday!

^ v
ChistopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 20 03:22:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard What's the total worth of a pound of quarters?

A roll of quarters feels like it is one pound, so I'll say $10.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 20 03:06:56 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper,

My training came at it from a slightly different perspective, but some
'tactics' that a person can apply in such an event include ...

(1) Know the layout of your workplace and environment. Most people do not.
They know their work area, break areas, restrooms, and the route to get in
and out that they use each day. You need to the whole shebang.

(2) Be aware of where you are in the work site and two ways of exiting said

(3) What rooms, walls, furniture, fixtures provide concealment? Which
provide cover?

(4) Where are there rooms with solid doors and locks (preferably rooms with
two such doors). One instructor claimed that there's never been a case where
the shooter went through a locked door (though there were cases where they
shot through such doors). OTOH, as I remember the shooter at Virginia Tech
forced his way into one or more classrooms. I think there may be a
difference that explains this exception: The VA Tech shooter knew there were
people inside and that the doors did not have locks.

(5) The Mnemonic use to be RUN-HIDE-FIGHT1. "Barricade" is being
substituted for "Hide" but some experts. The idea is barricade the door and
prepare to fight if the shooter tries to break through.

(6) Think about improvised weapons in advance. One expert recommends fire
extinguishers (more as a blunt weapon, though it could also be sprayed on
attacker trying to force through a door.

(7) Do not deny gunfire. Do not try to explain it away. Do not immediately
begin running until you have an idea from where the attack seems to be
coming and where you want to go and how you can get there. While considering
this, stay low. Move from cover to cover. SERPENTINE! (okay I had to write
that *g*)

(8) Bumper Sticker: Are you going to Cowboy-Up or just lay there and bleed?

I read a summary of some ~160 such cases (FBI). Most active shooters are not
trying to run up a body count, rather they are getting revenge on
someone(s). So they tend to go for a specific person(s), though they might
shoot anyone who gets in the way or who might be around the target.

A large number of such shootings end in a few minutes and before the police
arrive, usually because the attacker commits suicide.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 20 01:56:49 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Try answering one of them. *g*


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 20 01:55:28 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Those are good questions! I wish I had thought of them!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 20 01:29:34 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Ersatz-Trivia Girl

What is the "Valley of Stability"?

It's a phrase used in nuclear physics to describe the stability of nuclides
to radioactivity based on their binding energy. (All you have to do was
Google, copy, and paste. Slackers *g*)

What Judo technique did Buffy use to throw Larry in Phases? (generic
name is OK)


What general problem does differential calculus address?

Rates of instantaneous change

What's the total worth of a pound of quarters?

This is useful knowledge. You need to know it. Hint: It's the same worth as
a pound of dimes!

What countries border the Arctic Ocean?

Does anyone have a globe? A map? My kingdom for a map?

How did Lord Ismay describe the purpose of NATO?

(NATO's purpose is) To keep the Americans in, the Russians out,
and the Germans down.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 19 23:20:14 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper I only have to
work four hours tomorrow, but I
have my afternoon packed with stuff
to do!

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Jul 19 23:10:15 2018 [Edit/Delete]
NosoShyGirl, Agent Cooper

My apologies for forgetting about
the trivia! I woke up late and I
had only 15 minutes to get to

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 19 18:58:53 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Wolfguard: Well, honestly it was kind of...not sure how to say this. Depressing? Disappointing? Don't get me wrong, the officer doing the training was really trying to give as much advice as possible. Problem is, there isn't much to give on the topic.

Basically, the training was about 95% common sense and 5% actual, real world tactical advice. I was really hoping for more of the latter.

Basically, what I learned is what everybody knows: If somebody comes to your building armed and with a desperate desire to hurt people, there isn't really a whole heck of a lot an office full of unarmed folks can really do about it.

I mean, like I said, there where a few common sense tips but other than that we were left with "just hope it doesn't happen."

Not really encouraging.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 19 17:47:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper,

Active Shooter training? Neat. Over the years I've participated in a number
of those. Have you done it yet? How did it go?

Ersatz-Trivia Girl

What is the "Valley of Stability"?

What Judo technique did Buffy use to throw Larry in Phases? (generic
name is OK)

What general problem does differential calculus address?

What's the total worth of a pound of quarters?

What countries border the Arctic Ocean?

How did Lord Ismay describe the purpose of NATO?


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 19 16:13:43 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Don't worry. If REAL Trivia Girl doesn't show up, Fake Trivia Shemp will step in to cover for her!

Why does that come off sounding more like a threat then an assurance?

Actually, he may not since we have active shooter training here at whup soon. Sounds like fun!

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Thu Jul 19 14:14:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Peeks into the Bronze, looking
for Trivia Girl

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 19 12:39:05 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay elusio!

Happy CD Thursday!

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Jul 19 12:31:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Thursday, July 19th 2018 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Bronze-Age Betty
Lady Ireland

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to AuntiAm, Bibbikinz, Bronze-Age Betty, Lady Ireland, Maldwyn!

What is your childhood trauma? Cordelia, 'Welcome To The Hellmouth'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Thu Jul 19 11:41:18 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for elusio!

yay elusio!

Happy CD Thursday!

^ v
Maverick says:
(Thu Jul 19 04:38:07 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe, Wolfguard: Oh Come On. You can't tell me you don't see that Putin gets a sycophant seemingly adoring Press (or they can get stomped by him,) and Trump faces a new assault each day by the Progressive Mainstream Press which refuses to accept the results of the last election and who are trying to get rid of him. Thankfully, there are some people who can't be fooled by this charade.

Shan: Two left wings on an airplane will also cause it to spiral out of the sky. BTW, Nixon was never convicted of anything so never went to jail. D'Souza was convicted by a political prosecution and served detention. Trump pardoned him because his prosecution was so obviously unfair.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 19 03:34:57 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Time probably distorts judgment, because values can change. There was a time
when warfare and conquest was a proper calling. Men who did well at war were
respected by their contemporaries, even though a person looking back from
today might find them blood-thirty ego maniacs. *g*

Go to Amazon and look for the book, From Silk to Silicon by Garten.
Each chapter looks at one individual who played a major role in globalization
over time. Which one's achievements do you respect or not?


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 19 03:05:09 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Putin has better ratings among his own citizens than Trump does with his, although it would seem that only time will tell if their legacy is worth respecting.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 19 02:29:09 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Jul 19 02:32:30 2018
Christopher Marlowe,

Online definition of "respect"

"a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their
abilities, qualities, or achievements."

Putin has ruled Russia for close to twenty years. What sort of abilities
does that take? Is it an achievement?

Trump became a billionaire through real estate projects, a hit television
series, and through branding his name over a wide range of products. He won
the presidential election as an outsider - which he was. Are these

Just take the last one: Won the US presidential election of 2016. If one of
us was able to go to our 30th high school reunion and say, "Well, I was the
POTUS" would most of our classmates consider that an achievement? Would they
respect you for having done it?

I can hear some from the audience saying, 'T' didn't win it. The Russians
stole it for him!!! Whether they did or did not, that response may be one
reason Trump cannot accept the Russians at least meddled. In the end, what
you feel about a person determines what you think of their achievements more
than their achievements leading you to like or dislike them.

Seriously, reflect on all the catcalls Kennedy got compared to Tara. *g*

ETA Just look at how Tara gets color and Kennedy not. *g*

Probably more Russians respect and like Putin than do not.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 19 01:52:30 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I'm not sure how I feel about Putin. He is an effective leader, but not a man to be trusted or liked.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 19 01:38:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard A local pundit posted this question: Who do you respect more: Trump or PUtin.

I honestly wasn't sure how to respond.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 19 01:07:56 2018 [Edit/Delete]


^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Jul 19 00:27:22 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: How many individuals make up the group known as the 'Ra-Tet'?
Answer: Five

Trivia master: notsoShyGirl
Counted out: Agent Cooper, Ebdim8th!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 19 00:13:13 2018 [Edit/Delete]

^ v
Ebdim9th says:
(Wed Jul 18 21:19:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper MSG, also a really great band ... :D

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Jul 18 19:40:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: I saw Ra-Tet open for Guns N Roses at MSG in '89.

^ v
Shan says:
(Wed Jul 18 15:13:26 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Do I know what Dinesh D'Souza was
actually convicted of doing?

Yes, yes I do.

Do you recognize any other
distinctions between the left and

Yes, yes I do again. Also noted
to no-one's surprise when you
have two right wings and no left
wing to speak of, your aircraft
inevitably spirals out of the sky
and tumbles to Earth in flames.

^ v
Shan says:
(Wed Jul 18 15:07:53 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Dr Strange (Opera) Gloves or How
I Learned to Stop Worrying and
Love Once More With Feeling.

Back in the days BBT (Before Bit
Torrent), somehow Algerina (aka
Lady Algerina) and I got into an
off board yahoo/AOL email
exchange about the difference
between NTSC and PAL.

One thing led to another and she
very nicely sent me Buffy and
Angel on VHS tapes via the post
(Australian VHS machines usually
had an NTSC to PAL converter for
some reason). Ultimately in
return, I did send her the first
episode of Lexx (I Worship His
Shadow) and a DVD set of
Ultraviolet (no, not the Milla
Jovovich film, the 1998 6-part TV
series from the UK).

Anyway, I started to get really
bored in Season 6, so I did ask
her to stop but at some point I
did start watching them on
Australian TV (this was back in
the day when piracy wasn't so
rampant that they could make us
wait). Wasn't feeling the need to
see the episodes early.

There was a one episode gap
between the tapes I got and when
I started watching on TV. Which
was ... well, I think you can

Anyway, the years passed and I
never saw it. The perfect
opportunity was in 2015 (I think
that was the year) when the AV
Club (once known as the AV CLub)
were coming to the Sydney Opera
House and showing select episodes
in an overnight marathon.
Obviously this was going to be

However, come the day, I couldn't
find my bus pass and ultimately
ended up watching some stupid
James Badge Dale movie where they
were using ghosts to kill US
soldiers in Eastern Europe. It
was a real missed opportunity on
my part.

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Wed Jul 18 13:33:22 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl

^ v
Ebdim9th says:
(Wed Jul 18 13:30:31 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl Five, I think ....
I should know this, I just saw it a
few weeks ago ...

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 18 12:36:15 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: How many individuals make up the group known as the 'Ra-Tet'?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Jul 18 12:13:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Wednesday, July 18th nd 2018 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Elerie Megan
Lisl Fox
Nansi Elin

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Cobby, Elerie Megan, Lisl Fox, Morrigan, Nansi Elin, SlayerGemUK, WillowBBF, XERO!

Just keep walking, preacher-man. River, 'Jaynestown'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Wed Jul 18 12:12:57 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Jul 18 12:13:29 2018
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for jennifer lynn!

yay jennifer lynn!

today's deadguy memorial angel wednesday question is brought to you by:

sunyydale v. los angeles, a memoir by cordelia chase

cordelia, faith, drusilla, darla - better on btvs or angel?

Happy Non-Angel Wednesday!

^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 18 03:53:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay Carita!

Happy Birthday Slayed Soul!

Christopher Marlowe - Both parties are coming fairly unglued. I would prefer less interesting times in which people on both sides actually felt a higher loyalty to ethics than to party ideology. I'm sure that we have had some of that some of the time. I'm wondering if we have any now.

Shan - You seem to be under the impression that Dinesh D'Souza was convicted of inadequate research or just being "wrong". That is not yet the law of this land. Do you even know what he was actually convicted of doing?

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 18 02:27:01 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

If traditional party politics involve centralized control over how a person
enters and advances up the ladder, then it has been eroding for some time.
Clinton was an up and comer, but he would not have been the 1992 candidate
had not the top-tier Democrat potentials sat it out, because they believed
Bush the Senior's foreign policy successes made him unbeatable. Obama's real
political experience was as a state legislator. The year or two he spent as
senator was mostly spent running for president. Digital technology let him
by-pass the Democratic party and reach out to Democrats and independents who
saw in him something better than what Hilary Clinton had to offer.

Trump had the money to go it alone and the good luck to be running in a
packed field (16?) in which he stood out. And the news organizations ate it

More important, there were people who wanted something Trump better offered
over his sixteen odd competitors. The same is true for the voters who
preferred Obama over Clinton in 2008 and Bernie over Clinton in 2016. Such
people show that 'traditional party politics' isn't meeting everyone's needs
and wants.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 18 01:57:01 2018 [Edit/Delete]

You have not seen Once More With Feeling? I first watched it in
trepidation, worried the casts' musical performances might not be up to
standards. Consequently, I was too tense to enjoy it. After the series had
ended one of my goddaughters bought me the album and I became entranced. *g*

Historical Note: Joss told the executives at UPN, the US network that then
carried BtVS, that the episode would run over the time-allotted. UPN said, ~
So be it. As I remember, the episode - including commericals - ran 70 minutes.

As I remember it. *g*


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 18 01:52:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I am hereabouts too and I'm wondering if we are seeing the death knell of traditional party politics.

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Wed Jul 18 01:31:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Shan--OMG, see it, see it!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 18 00:47:03 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Beyond 'good' and 'bad' or their
positions on different policies, do
you recognize any other
distinctions between the left and


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 18 00:24:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]


^ v
Shan says:
(Wed Jul 18 00:18:53 2018 [Edit/Delete]
"No, Dinesh D'Souza and John Phillip Souzsa were not cousins."

I ... I have no idea what this means.

Mr D'Souza has frequently been called out for his claims that fly at right angles to reality.

Most notably when he was sent to jail. To pre-empt ... so was Nixon and we all know he did stuff.

Just in case anyone thinks I'm dancing around the subject and where I stand, the Right has fought every meaningful form of social progress (and in many cases fundamental human decency) for decades, the Left gets it done in spite of them and for all intents and purposes, the US doesn't have a Left. Not that we of the rest of the world in any way would recognise it.

Also, the Republican Party must be destroyed a la Destroy All Monsters. Then the Democratic Party can take their place as the Right Wing conservative party of the US (but you know, with actual conservative policy that isn't insane) and a new Left Wing party that's actually, you know, left of centre can take that spot.

In other news, this is my 17th year of not yet seeing Once More With Feeling.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 17 23:38:01 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay carita!


I think he was better on BTVS, I liked him more on Buffy than on his own show.

Happy Non-Buffy Tuesday!

^ v
Maverick says:
(Tue Jul 17 23:37:16 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Shan: No, Dinesh D'Souza and John Phillip Souzsa were not cousins. I didn't think you knew anything about American politics or race relations. You speak in generalizations, about the thing that did, you know, the thing. You just enjoy yanking our chains. The Left is always the Left. They believe they deserve to be large and in charge while essentially knowing nothing about anything except how to lie and how to extort money from the country's coffers. Saul Alinsky, one of their heroes, studied under Frank Nitti, one of Al Capone's henchmen. Nitti's talent was extortion--he was one of those guys who walked into a bar and sold protection or (knocking over bottles) "this happens." The Left is just a tad more sophisticated than that but barely a tad. Some people wise up.


Chris Beck's Theme (sequenced by Noella Choi) for Buffy's episodes "Sacrifice" and "The Gift."

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 17 23:03:49 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: Who does the Judge first kill when he is re-assembled?
Answer: Dalton

Trivia Master: notsoShygirl
Trivia Nice Attempt: wolfguard and Agent Cooper!

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 17 18:43:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Notshoshygirl: No, Dalton was that dude from Roadhouse. And he would have totally cleaned that lame Judge robot's clock!

CC Trivia Girl

Deadguy Tuesday Question: I dunno. I guess you could say Angel came into his own more when he got his own show. So I'll say Angel for the record.

Which, IMHO as a show had its good moments, but was never quite as good as BTVS overall. And that ending...ugh!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 17 18:41:57 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Tue Jul 17 18:43:08 2018
Trivia Girl,

Almost oops! If it had not been for notsoShyGirl I would have
embarrassed myself by giving a wrong answer. I'd forgotten Dalton's Demise
and only remembered the Judge zapping the old white-haired guy coming up the
stairs in the Mall. *g*


Up until around the 1968 US Presidential Election the South voted for
Democratic. Governor George Wallace ran on a independent ticket in 1968 and
won around five southern states. I imagine some of his voters, up and till
then, had been Democrats. After the '68 election the Republican party
started winning southern states. I believe most of these voters were the
same people who had voted in 1956, 1960, or 1964 as Democrats. They just
switched to the party they believed better favored their views.

It's somewhat like American businesses. Over US history business has moved
back and forth between wanting a strong central government or a neutered
central government. It depends on how they believe each philosophy meets
their needs at a given time and place. Some businesses benefit from a strong
dollar and some from a weak dollar. Some benefit from government spending,
some do not. The particulars matter.


^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Tue Jul 17 14:30:30 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for carita

yay carita!

today's deadguy memorial buffy tuesday question is brought to you by:

better, inc. - yes, we make it better

was the character angel better on btvs or angel?

Happy Non-Buffy Tuesday!

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Tue Jul 17 13:38:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 17 12:44:34 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Buffy's hopes for a happy birthday.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 17 12:41:09 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: Who does the Judge first kill when he is re-assembled?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Jul 17 12:22:29 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Tuesday, July 17th 2018 C.E.

We have ONE (1) Birthday!

Slayed Soul

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Slayed Soul!

Dawn: You're not fleeing. You're... moving at a brisk pace. Buffy: Quaintly referred to in some cultures as the Big Scaredy Run Away. 'Spiral'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 17 12:09:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Good morning beta!

^ v
Shan says:
(Tue Jul 17 09:28:13 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Well, exactly. Not only have the
parties changed a lot over time,
there's a lot of different types
of people who make up both
party's members and voters.


Good recall, we're actually
around the corner from where
Arthur C. Clarke used to live.

We know about D. D'Souza because
people have repeatedly called him
out (with evidence) for being
wrong if not very wrong. Most
notably, a very unimpressed

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 17 06:15:35 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Tue Jul 17 06:16:54 2018
Yay Angela!

Belated Happy Birthday Christopher Marlowe!!!

White Wings,

Agree on the Buffy and Joyce scene. After Joyce lit the candle she asked
Buffy if she was going to make a wish. Buffy replied, ~ I think I'll let it

Now and then you hear it said that radio and perhaps television have been
used to promote and propagate a chosen accent for a country. Yet for some
years now, the BBC has tried to use newscasters with different English

As to the Queen's English in Tennessee. You have to believe. The voice is
out there. *g*

Marching through Georgia is Lee B. Kennett's history of Sherman's
campaign through the state. In one of the final chapters he talks about the
repercussions. A reporter who traveled through Georgia around a generation
after the war ended found that most Georgians had put the war behind them.
Get on with life. Kennett claims what hate Georgians felt towards the north
came after the release of Gone with the Wind. If true, very
interesting. Those who lived through the war and the aftermath gone over it,
while those who saw the movie got all riled up. *g*

Good Night to All


^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Jul 17 03:59:20 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe - The Master would not belong to a party. A party would belong to him. I would say whichever party could bring him the most food, but I'm not certain that their post-siring efficacy could be reliably predicted.

lostinamerica - You, I believe. Thanks to the neighbors, only one item was lost to looters. Sadly it was a gold-plated carriage clock weighing 5 lbs that I had carried in my hand luggage when we flew back from London, and it got pretty heavy. This was before the days of wheeled carry ons. But so many people were packing things and one man came to my mother and said "I'll take the clock", and he did. We lost more to the company that was supposed to de-smoke and store things. Everyone was too heartsick to be taking inventory, but we knew a few things went in that never came out. A lesson for people who suffer house fires.

Re: Dawn - ;-)

Comma - You were converted by S5? I was so much less fond of that one, but apparently the charm was there for people who didn't bring their own baggage to it.

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Tue Jul 17 02:39:38 2018 [Edit/Delete]
white wings--Sorry about your experience with the bad journalists--I would
never have done that to you :)

Trivia Girl--Good thing you limited your trivia question about who the
Destroyer was to ATS, because the first thing I thought of was the Stay
Puft Marshmallow Man--it just popped in there :D

white wings, wolfguard--I hated Dawn so much I did in one of my contest
stories what Buffy couldn't do in The Gift--let her die and fulfill her
reason for being :)

Belated Yay! Blade the Vampire Hunter, DeMoriel and Beldin!

Belated Happy Birthday ChristopherMarlowe, StGermain, AussieBulldog and

^ v
Comma says:
(Tue Jul 17 01:28:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Tue Jul 17 01:45:01 2018
I like to look at list that, in real life, mean very little to me. List like 'Top Small Towns in Every States' and 'Worst Acting Jobs of All Time'. Every once in a while, I find one that involves a list of TV shows, worst, best, failed, canceled early, etc. It really surprises me, as I go over these list, at how many shows that I never knew existed. Most of it comes from me being out of the United States for almost ten years, from 1971-1991. I was also, from June 1991 until December 1995, working full time, going to college, and raising a family. That is why I did not see an episode of, and become a fan of, BtVS until S-5 was on TV. I caught up on the Sci-Fi channel while watching the new episodes as they aired. I did view Angel, when I wasn't working, when they originally aired.

Looking at movies I like, my favorites, of the last few years, are the Marvel and the DC movies. My all time favorites are 1. Anything with John Wayne 2. Anything with Bill Nighy, LOVE 'Pirate Radio' and 'Wild Target' 3. 'How to Train Your Dragon' and 4. Hotel Trans-1,2, & 3.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 17 00:55:38 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I wonder what party the Master would belong to?

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 17 00:02:34 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: History
Question: What weapon was Lizzie
Borden accused of using on her
Answer: Axe

Trivia Masters: notsoshyGirl
Trivia comedians: Maverick, Agent Cooper!

^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 16 22:38:59 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Yay Angela!

wolfguard - But what if Einstein was wrong? note: I'm just funning ya

I like the story of the engineer who wrote Gene Roddenberry saying that he was trying to find a way to make automatic doors open sideways. (Remember this was a long time ago.) He said in frustration "How do you get the d@mn doors to open so fast?" Roddenberry said he hated to tell him that it was two crew members opening the doors.

I avoid that same scene in Innocence and like the same one. I also like Joyce just holding Buffy as she let the candle burn down, although she didn't suspect why.

I was pretty oblivious to politics (I mean, much more than I am now *g*) during LBJ's presidency, and a number of the later ones. But I remember talking to more alert friends about Texas politics once I went to work for the State. I can't speak for the Deep South, but the feeling was that in Texas in the 70's there wasn't much difference between Republicans and Democrats philosophically, it was just that Democrats had the power. They also seemed to manage the State bureaucracy more smoothly. When John Connally switched, it apparently opened some floodgates. I suspect his switch had more to do with power than civil rights, but I don't know. I can't speak for the general populace.

My parents (both Texas born and bred Republicans, though I'm not so sure of my father's family ) explained to me in my tender youth that a lot of the hatred following the Civil War (which they warned me might ought to be called the War Between the States when I was in the South, though by the 70's in Austin it was not an issue) was caused by the carpetbaggers, who basically flooded into the injured South to try and grab land. Oh, and to get the former slaves voting and in government (where they would presumably be guided by carpetbaggers). Both goals (and sheer cantankerousness) probably spurred the hideous formation of the KKK, and the determination of the white populace to vote Democrat for generations. But that was the past. These days, as you said, it's complicated, and it's fluid.

You were posting a little while ago about accents. I suspect that you would have to be very deep indeed in Appalachia these days to find the old pure accents. Travel, more centrally controlled education, and most of all, television, have probably caused changes. I think that political attitudes are subject to the same softening influences. On the other hand, you don't have to travel too far out of Austin before the bumper stickers and lawn signs look a lot more Republican. In fact you don't have to go far before you'll find that a community fish fry will start with prayers, and if held in a school auditorium, the entire community will stand and pledge allegiance to the flag by the stage. So maybe things don't change that quickly even with external influences. *g*

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 16 18:13:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Mon Jul 16 18:15:24 2018

Maverick & Shan,

Democrats and Republicans are not individual species. There is no biological
lineage one can trace back or forward between the past and the present.
Southerners who had voted Democrat for decades changed parties following the
civil rights legislation of the sixties. Some Democrats voted for Reagan and
some for Trump. There are now people who were long Republicans who now are
becoming independents or voting Democrat.

If D'Sousa's argument rides solely on an 1859 Democrat being equivalent to a
2018 Democrat and similarly for Republicans, then it is a flawed line of
reasoning. It's akin to saying contemporary Germans have Nazi sympathies,
because many Germans supported and followed Hitler and the Nazi party in the
30's. If one is inclined not to like Germans or Germany, then it's an easy
argument to accept.

(Sometime after WWII, Francois Mauriac said, ~ I love Germany so much I am
glad there are two of them. ~)


^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Mon Jul 16 17:11:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Mon Jul 16 17:18:32 2018
Shan Also, w e don't know which part of Old Blighty Darla is form originally? West County?
ETA I often agree with D'Souza , which means not always. I don't *necessarily* credit his South Asian birth for that.

^ v
Maverick says:
(Mon Jul 16 16:52:51 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: She gave them the silent treatment.

Shan: Did TOO. But how would you know? Don't you live in Sri Lanka somewhere with the ghost of Arthur C. Clarke? So, you know all about U.S. race relations? Before the Civil War who owned slaves? Republicans/Democrats? Which party started the Ku Klux Klan? Republicans/Democrats? Which party passed the Jim Crow laws? Republicans/Democrats? Do you believe in the Big Switcheroo?


You'll Never Find

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Jul 16 15:24:21 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Moody Snark. She WAS a teenager, after all.

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Mon Jul 16 13:41:51 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl
Lizzie Borden took an axe
And gave her mother forty whacks
And when she saw what she had done
She gave her father forty-one

^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Mon Jul 16 13:06:09 2018 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for angela!

yay angela!

Goodbye Blue Monday!

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Jul 16 12:39:40 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: History
Question: What weapon was Lizzie
Borden accused of using on her

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Jul 16 12:21:24 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Monday, July 16th
2018 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!

Big Al
Tom Lenk as Andrew Wells

Happy Birthday from the Bronze,
to Big Al, Ted, Tom Lenk,

Inara: Who's winning? Simon: I
can't tell. They don't seem to be
playing by any civilized rules
that I know. 'Bushwhacked'''

to be added to the birthday list,
please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 16 12:12:36 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 16 06:17:03 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

In the past couple weeks I listened to a lecture titled, "Einstein unifies
space and time.' The professor explained, in a way I finally understood, why
FTL travel is impossible. I'll look for my notes, there're here somewhere.

Just watched most of Innocence. I could not bear watching the scene
where Buffy meets Angelus, pretending to be Angel. He took her heart apart.
I began with the scene in the school where Angel beckons Willow to come to

So my emotional memories triggered. One of my favorite exchanges between
Buffy and Giles, happens after the fight at the mall when Giles drops Buffy
off at her home.

~You must be so disappointed in me.

No. No I'm not ..... You couldn't have known what would happen. The coming
months are going to be hard. I expect for all of us (Passions). But
if it's guilt, I'm not your man. All you will get from me is my support and
my respect.


^ v
Shan says:
(Mon Jul 16 03:52:55 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Mon Jul 16 03:53:45 2018
"D'Souza, being someone who was
not raised in our culture, is
especially good at researching
and exposing mythical beliefs,

This statement is in no way

(Well, nice to see some things
haven't changed around here*)


^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 16 03:08:26 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe - You're a stronger woman than I am, to keep your schedule. But I suspect that you feel you are getting something from it, or you wouldn't be doing it, so good for you!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 16 02:11:12 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Finally coming up for air!

white wings I'm glad this is only once a year! But, obviously it's my own fauld to have a busy schedule. *g*

^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 16 01:12:47 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday AussieBulldog, davidboreanazishot, I'm Kid, and Ranna!

Christopher Marlowe - Congratulations on surviving both your birthday and Saturday. You seemed to have rather a lot scheduled. Why am I not surprised? *g*

wolfguard - I'm not sure about reclassifying FTL travel. Time will tell about that. *g*

The one constant seems to be that unless one is creating alien psyches, the characters must still conform to know human behavior. All else, possible or impossible, revolves around that.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Jul 15 16:37:21 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Monday, July 2nd 2018 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!

Im Kid

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to BAD, davidboreanazishot, I'm Kid, Ranna!

And I wonder, what possible catastrophe came crashing down from heaven and brought this dashing stranger to tears? Drusilla, 'Fool for Love'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Jul 15 16:05:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I survived Saturday!

^ v
Shan says:
(Sun Jul 15 07:25:57 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sun Jul 15 07:36:55 2018
Recommendations: Don't watch the
trailer, don't read anything
about it, just rent it blind.
Julie Benz in the film "Circle".

Different film, no BtVS or Angel
alums, also see blind - no
trailers - "Radius" [2017] (also highly

"Cube" - going back a bit but
still a classic.

Avoid "Curvature", though. That
was a bust.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 15 06:09:48 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sun Jul 15 06:12:01 2018
White Wings,

Rod Serling is suppose to have said, science fiction is"the improbable made
possible" and fantasy is "the impossible made probable".

I believe a classic definition says a science fiction story results as a
consequence of a scientific discovery or technological invention that has
happened, but can be imagined as happening. The obvious example is Faster-
than-Light travel.

Fantasy are stories where some of the rules of the fictional verse defy the
rules of the real verse - and there's no imaginable path that could lead
the real verse to the fictional verse. I will now step out on the limb and
jump: Science Fiction stories using FTL travel are really fantasy stories.

ETA: OTOH, I'd wager most writers of classic science fiction could not fully
imagine how their speculative science or technology evolved from the real
verse to their fictional verse. If they could, they might well be
millionaires. *g*


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 15 04:53:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I agree with you on the series. In talking about Prophecy Girl, I was
suggesting Joss used "The Hero's Journey" for both the season/series
premiere and the season finale. In both Welcome to the Hellmouth/The
and Prophecy Girl Buffy initially refuses the challenge.
In the former, Giles sets the book on vampyrs in front of her and she turns
away. In the latter, upon learning the prophecy says she will die, she
quits. This refusal is required. Some academics/critics/writers claim THJ is
"the" common story outline for all novels and movies. *g* In Myth and the
, Stuart Voytilla takes 50 classic movies and shows how their plot
follows THJ outline. For instance in Star Wars, Luke declines Obi
Wan's challenge to train, etc. Luke can't. He has chores on his Uncle and
Aunt's farm. Then Luke returns home to find them both dead from an Imperial
raid and decides to take up the challenge.

On the American English: I've read in more than one place if one wants to
hear the English of the 16th century, then go listen to the folks living in
eastern Tennessee / western North Carolina. This is where some of the
English colonist settled and being relatively isolated, the spoken language
hasn't changed as much as elsewhere. That's right. Elizabeth and Pepys and
Defoe sounded like American Hillbillies. *g* (And I can say this, having
lived in east Tennessee for a decade or so. *g*).


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 14 23:23:07 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Home, but just for a shower, two more events today!

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 14 22:26:54 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I'm going to put it down as Darla created the modern day American accent as people everywhere she met started to copy it because they thought it was trendy. Ahead of our times, she was.

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 14 18:45:05 2018 [Edit/Delete]
pssst! Birthday Gnomette, I checked old boards, and I'm pretty sure you are a month off on the birthdays today.

Happy Birthday Dead Still Pretty (DSP), Kiba Rika, redruM, and Robin TSH!

wolfguard - On the other hand, Mark Twain referred to fiction. Maybe it doesn't apply to science fiction (which is a fiction involving science, which is supposed to be credible until it is fictionalized) and fantasy (which by its title requires a suspension of the credibility requirement).

Sure, the big adoption reveal. And yet the scene still grates on the nerves (excluding yours) all these years later. Nope, created to be annoying. OTOH, I remember Dawn. I try to forget Glory completely. Perhaps that's some of the old Ben/Glory spell still hanging on. Dawn spurred me to a desire for physical violence approaching a spanking. If I think of Glory, I remember that she inspired me to a desire for physical violence in the form of beheading in mid-speech. Forgetting now.

Shan - It's a definite point. I'm going to rationalize it by saying that Darla rose above conventions and accents. Beautiful women tend to manage that better.

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 14 12:33:58 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Point to ponder:

Darla was born in the 16th
Century according to her
biography and apparently the
Master comes to meet her in that
scene set in 1609 (according to

She's always sounded the same
from that scene onwards.

So ... that means she's had an
American accent since before
there was an America (sure,
Wikipedia says it's in the
Virginia colony but also,
American accents weren't always
what they are now either).

What to make of this conundrum?
She was even apparently born in
the British Isles. For better or
worse, at least Liam had a crack
at an Irish accent for a bit!

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Jul 14 12:33:12 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Today Saturday, July 14th 2018 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Microphone Chick

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Ariadne, gangfolles, KarenT, Microphone Chick
Minnin, shadowgirl, slayersworld, StGermain!

Right. Piano. Because that's what we used to kill that big demon that one time. No, wait. That was a rocket launcher. Xander, 'Spiralt''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Jul 14 12:08:24 2018 [Edit/Delete]

I took the TV portion of BTVS to
be bookended by Sunnydale.

Season 1 Episode 1 - arrive at
Sunnydale and start school there.

Season 7 Episode 22 - Sunnydale
leaves and school's out forever!
(Well, that one anyway.)

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 14 06:35:04 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be
credible. - Mark Twain

If I remember correctly, Dawn's line ~ Get out! Get Out! Get Out! are from
Blood Ties and shortly followed Dawn's learning her true origins. She
was upset. Small things can be upsetting to teens and what Dawn had learned
was beyond small.

~What did you and Principal Snyder talk about anyway?

~Principal Snyder said you were a trouble maker (beat) And I could care
less. I have a daughter who can take care of herself. Who is brave and
resourceful and thinks of others in a crisis. No matter who you hang out
with or what dumb teenage things you have to do, I'm going to sleep better
at night knowing that.

So how long before this wears off and you're ragging on me again?

Oh, a week and a half.

Very cool.


From School Hard


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 14 05:13:19 2018 [Edit/Delete]
I'm alive!!!! Barely!! One long day down, another long one to go!

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 14 04:31:50 2018 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard - It's a reasonable retcon. I mean, the alternative is to believe an inconsistency, and we couldn't have that, could we now? *g*

Dawn had at least one moment of clarity and a few moments of grace even in S5, and a few more in later seasons. But before that we had to endure get out!Get Out!GET OUT! *shriek* You'd almost think she was created specifically to cause most of the supernatural problems that Buffy had in S5.

Comma - It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. But I think I'll wait to learn a bit more about it before jumping on the bandwagon. I gave up HBO and some similar networks rather a long time ago.

^ v
Comma says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:38:26 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday Christophermarlowe!

White Wings: I have heard rumors about him doing other series for years. The article did state that NEXFLIX and others were outbid by HBO.

It will be interesting! I believe that every BtVS fan and Firefly fan will at least give the new series a look.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:38:02 2018 [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

I suspect Joss knew he wanted the finale story to be Buffy recoiling from
her fate - it bookends the series premiere - but hadn't thought through the
details. I will here and now retcon it for him. *g*

First, all the kill the slayer, kill the slayer shenanigans. The Master was
overwrought. Buffy had slapped him down by slaying his vessel, Luke. Several
weeks after that Buffy goes and slays Darla, his favorite. The only thing
that had gone right for him was the bait-and-switch they pulled on Buffy in
Never Kill a Boy on the First Date. That calmed the Master enough to
sit back and think more deeply on what the prophetic books said - hey,
they'd been right about the annointed one. So what does the Master discover?
You're going to need the Slayer now to free you. Belucifer! Missed that
stake, didn't we.

So what those three vampires Buffy took down? Truth be told, they weren't
out to kill Buffy. They were out to capture her. They failed. And this would
have confirmed the prophecy to the Master - the child would bring Buffy to
him. The child was the way.

All the other vampires were newbies, they wouldn't have a chance against the
Slayer, but they might keep her and her watcher busy enough not to discover
the real meaning of the prophecy. *g*

As to Dawnie, just remember when Dawn realized she had been cut, the blood
was flowing, and the dimensions were opening, she tried to jump. When Buffy
stopped her, Dawn argued you have to let me go. Only blood will close it.
You have to let me go.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:05:23 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Yes, for the conclusion of a deductive argument to be true the logic has to
be valid and the premises, aka 'facts', have to be true. One can begin
examining an argument from either point - the premises or the logic. If a
premise is false or the logic invalid, then the conclusion hasn't been
proven.1 Consequently, a person's reasoning can be flawed because
their facts are wrong or their logic is invalid or both.

So when I wrote about 'flawed reasoning', it means I found facts and/or
logic of the reasoning offered in some or all of those sites flawed. In some
cases, the facts were "not established". Declaring one party of a debate is
"begging the question" is declaring, 'You're assuming a fact to be true that
hasn't been proven / proven to my satisfaction.'

While doing a book tour author Juan Enriquez observed that the people who
read the best-selling "Left Behind" series and those who read Dan Brown's
best-selling 'Robert Langdon' series would not deign to read the other. So
if you had never read either one and were trying to decide which to read,
just look to what folks were reading each series. Which group are you most
like? Decision made.

Which brings us to D'Sousa. Now and then, I've heard him on a news program,
but nothing memorable. I've read one or two reviews on one or two of his
books. I've not read any of his works, because time is limited and I've
assessed the worthiness of his reasoning by the company he attracts.
Essentially they come across as folks like yourself who believe they know
the "TRUTH" and anyone that doesn't agree with them is, at best, brain-
washed by liberal society, etc. This isn't my cup of tea.

1 A particular conclusion might be true, but if the given
argument / reasoning is flawed, then the conclusion sits in limbo waiting a
better argument.


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white wings says:
(Sat Jul 14 00:01:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Happy Birthday Bronzebeta!

Happy Birthday Christopher Marlowe!

Happy Birthday Hollyn, LadyMuck, Spikara, and Zophiel!

Yay Hello Cutie!

Christopher Marlowe - How has your birthday gone? Did you have to work all day? Has there been cake?

wolfguard - Your theory about the Master's sending the vampires into the high school makes sense. It was obviously planned and posed, and they had not previously made mass incursions into the school. But I don't give him too much credit as a master planner. Remember that whole "If you hadn't come, I couldn't go" bit? Why on earth were his minions trying to kill the Slayer night in and night out, even three in one night at the beginning of Prophecy Girl, rather than trying to keep her alive until she could be lured down to be sacrificed by the Master?

Of course you liked Dawny. You are a contrarian. *g* Not that she was evil, but no one did her any favors by taking her hysterics seriously.

Comma - Huh. I wonder what happened to the pilot for another series that he was supposed to produce? Suddenly that's hard to find on google.

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Comma says:
(Fri Jul 13 23:22:06 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Jul 13 23:41:41 2018
So Joss is writing, directing, executive producing, and the showrunner for a show for HBO called, 'The Nevers'.

Nevers is described by HBO as a sci-fi epic about a group of Victorian women who find themselves imbued with unusual abilities.

I must wonder if any BtVS alumni will be on the show?


^ v
Maverick says:
(Fri Jul 13 21:48:25 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: J. Fred Muggs

Wolfguard: Agent Cooper? No, it was in response to your e-mail, as in: "5) Your recommendations on reading? From the same person that post links to articles which I've often found flawed in reasoning? Not going to be at the top of my reading list." The thing is: One CAN question the reasoning once the facts are established. D'Souza, being someone who was not raised in our culture, is especially good at researching and exposing mythical beliefs, like the one I was particularly puzzled by as a child. I used to question: "Wait a minute, you mean at some point the Democrats became the Republicans and the Republicans became the Democrats?" And people (including my teachers) always used to say, "Yeah, that's what happened." D'Souza researched this and documented that the only real person who switched parties at that time was Strom Thurmond.


Midnight Cowboy

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 13 18:07:30 2018 [Edit/Delete]
Prophecy Girl

After watching it last night, realized I may have missed something the first
several times around of watching it. *g*

First for those few who might not remember the plot. The first season finale
apocalypse is rising. Buffy learns the prophecy says she will die fighting
the Master. Buffy learns of this when she overhears Giles and Angel debating
the prophecy. Up to this point, Buffy was in pretty good moood.1
Not now. Her solution? I quit. I'm just sixteen Giles. I don't want to die
(Kudos, kudos, kudos to SMG's performance). So Buffy turns and walks away -
figuratively and literally. What changes her mind?

Cordelia was having feelings for a boy. He had agreed to get some
audio/video equipment from school and bring to the Bronze (?). There'd be
some delay, so Cordelia asked Willow for help and the two of them went to
the room where the equipment was kept. On the way Cordelia confesses to
Willow that she should be mad at the boy, but she thought it was cute. They
look through the door window and see, from behind, the boys on the counch.
Cordelia ~ Oh! The fell asleep watching cartoons. So cute! (beat) I should
be mad. She and Willow enter the room to find a massacre. Vampires had
struck home ...

And that's what Willow tells Buffy. The vampires came to the place that was
my place and killed the students. And they had fun. It's then that
Buffy realizes being the Slayer means she's the one that has to stand in the
breach - prophecy be damned. She resolves to do it.2 Tells Willow
to stay in tonight. Take care.

Now, what I think I might have missed. I took the massacre as just one more
instance of the increasing vampire activity that Buffy and Giles were seeing
as the apocalypse approached. It was a plot device focusing Buffy on the
choice she faced. Now I'm thinking the Master ordered that specific attack
as a way to goad Buffy to come to him, because he understood that's what the
prophecy foretold for him to escape. He tells that last part to Buffy before
he kills her. ~Prophecies are tricky. (If you hadn't come for me, I couldn't

That works both ways, because Buffy did die, but Xander was there to revive
her and a revived Buffy was someone to contend with. Dusted Master.
Prophecies are tricky.

1 She was a bit down over what had just happened between her and
Xander (and that scene alone shows why the story doesn't age - that scene is
replayed, probably everyday somewhere in the teenage world).

2 Here Prophecy Girl telling the season finale as a stand-
alone "Hero's Journey". Buffy is most reluctant to face the challenge.
States she will not. And then something happens that leads her to accept it.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 13 16:41:39 2018 [Edit/Delete]
lostinamerica...thank you!

^ v
Ebdim9th says:
(Fri Jul 13 16:38:52 2018 [Edit/Delete]

Happy Birthday

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 13 12:54:45 2018 [Edit/Delete]
yay hello cutie!

Happy Thank Joss It's Friday!

Happy Birthday to me and I'm hitting the ground running today!

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