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wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 26 23:39:49 2019
Edited: Fri Jul 26 23:42:00 2019
White Wings,

Your science fiction 10 commandments is an idea worth pondering over.

Agent Cooper,

I know there have been some short stories and references and guest spots of
other slayers, but I don't recall it being established that past slayers
traveled about.1 Do you recall specific examples?

Buffy's duties have kept her in Sunnydale, because Sunnydale has a
That said, Sunnydale has a hellmouth, because Joss needed a reason to keep
BTVS set in one place since one of the show's premises was high school is

1 OTOH, I've a vague memory of Faith telling Xander about
wrestling alligators in Arkansas (???) and my impression was Faith was
originally from Boston.


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Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Jul 26 12:21:07 2019
Wolfguard: I have to imagine the Council has agents stationed nearby wherever an active slayer is based.

On the other hand, the original intention of the Slayer was to travel around the world and fight vamps wherever they are, which is what all the other slayers before her seemed to do. (There is only ONE slayer after all.) The fact that Buffy stays in Sunnydale so much is one of the quirks in the show's premise.

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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Jul 26 12:19:06 2019
Today Friday, July 26th 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Silver Star

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Falcata, seaside, Silver Star

What? She killed 'em with mathematics. What else could it have been? Jayne, 'Objects In Space''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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white wings says:
(Fri Jul 26 03:04:17 2019
Happy Birthday Grinn, Natty, Sassyeggs, and Superrmk

ShadowQuest - I'm sorry about the house. :-( Sometimes things happen.

I had to google acrylic pouring. It looks fascinating. It's not something I should be anywhere near, since paint and I mix all too well, and we mix with everything nearby while we're at it. But I can wistfully admire the ability of others.

wolfguard - I had forgotten the difficulty of using biblical characters in contemporary stories. *g* I suppose one could try a remake of something like The Ten Commandments from a sci fi perspective. I don't think that anyone really cares about how Satan is used or abused, as long as he's not a role model. ;-)

Agent Cooper - If you wait long enough and into another series, you learn that Faith could repent, but she wasn't going to admit it to anyone who is "better" than she was.

As for Wesley, remember that he did sort of redeem his jerkiness in GD2 by showing up and saying he wasn't representing the Council and would take orders, even if he went out with a whimper. And the rogue demon hunter was so sad it was hard to not take pity on him.

Trivia Girl - You mean that notsoShyGirl is in the ALIVE! Camp? I've forgotten who is RIGHT and WRONG. Oldtimers.

Oh, I have news of great inconsequence! I saw a porcupine today, and I've never heard of them in these parts. Apparently they have always been here, but I never knew it. Sadly, he had already passed, but his remains were in the center turn lane on my way home, with quills spread over the lane.

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Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Jul 26 02:31:22 2019
notsoshyGirl is right as well as RIGHT!

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 26 01:31:16 2019
finally home.

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wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 25 21:57:47 2019

Until your post my total knowledge of Asmodeus was from the cited scene in
The Hollow Crown Affair. To be certain I remembered correctly, I
googled "Asmodeus. Many returns, some noting the ~Devil of Lust~.

Agent Cooper,

I recall of that, if only because I checked one of the episode synopses. The
essential point was Faith's first decision to flee happened after the Council
captured her and that would not have happened in the episode if Wesley had not
overheard Giles' plan. Odd how quick the Council was in responding. Wonder
where the Team was based?


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Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 25 19:38:04 2019
Wolfguard: Actually, Faith goes to Giles first, telling him her version of the truth (Buffy staked the deputy mayor). Buffy arrives to find them together, and Faith tells Buffy she told Giles about the accidental staking. Giles acts as if he believes Faith until Faith leaves, and then confides in Buffy that Faith is a bad liar, and he knows Buffy wasn't responsible.

Giles then tells Buffy that accidents like this have happened before, that in war there are incidents like this (oddly echoing Faith's flippant justifaction to Buffy earlier in the ep) and that the Council usually investigates and metes out punishment if it is called for. IIRC he says it rarely comes to that.

He then goes on to tell Buffy that he will NOT report to the council about Faith, because he knows that they will only make things worse for Faith, and he doesn't work for them anymore anyway.

Unfortunately Wesley is eavesdropping and hears the whole thing, calls the Council who proceed to throw gasoline on the fire.

I forgot what a jerk Wesley was when he first arrives on the show. Honestly, I don't know how Angel put up with him after that.

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DaddyCatALSO says:
(Thu Jul 25 18:31:50 2019
wolfguard Been a long time since I've read Tobit showing Asmodeus as related to lust. Von Thorn's article said Asmodeus was devilish patron of moneylenders an speculators so he fits the modern world that began in the Renaissance better than Beelzebub, who in turn was more suited to medieval times than the ancient Satan himself.

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wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 25 18:15:55 2019
Edited: Thu Jul 25 18:21:36 2019

I was introduced to "Asmodeus" as Ward Baldwin's 'codename', I believe
during his time with the IRA? (Baldwin was David McDaniel's fictional head
of THRUSH's San Francisco satrap). Napoleon had learned of it when putting
together his own dossier of Baldwin. Upon reading it, Illya pauses, the
comments, "Limping Devil. Approporiate." On just double-checking my memory,
see Asmodeus is also the "Devil of Lust".

Agent Cooper,

As I remember Consequences, Giles tells the scoobies they have to
keep Faith's accidental killing of Alan Finch a secret. We can't tell the
Council. We have to help her. Unfortunately, Wesley overhears the
conversation and contacts the Council. The Council captures Faith from
Angel, but Faith escapes. Buffy finds her at the docks waiting to take a
freight out of the country.1

All this you know, but what it says to me was Faith believed, with good
evidence, that the Council was going to take her down and she was going on
the run. But after saving Buffy from Trick, Faith changes her mind. As you
noted, that scene appears to have been written to instill hope in the
audience that Faith is going to seek redemption. But, no way, this is Joss.

The real question is why did Faith change her mind, then and there, to turn
from running away to offering her services to the Mayor? What happened in
Faith's mind between her conversation with Buffy - the ambush and fight -
and her going to the Mayor?2

(ETA Oops. Earlier in the episode Buffy and Faith discovered the Mayor
leaned to the dark side. Faith probably concluded if she did not run and
staid in Sunnydale, then only one who could possibly protect her from the
Council and the Law was the Mayor.)

1 Pure BtVS. Most all commercial freighting is done by container
ships which is not what we saw in the episode. The sudden reveal that
Sunnydale as a commercial (?) port. Fanwanking it - Santa Barbara is the
city on which Joss modeled Sunnydale, albeit down-sizing Sunnydale. I
believe Santa Barbara has oil rigs offshore nearby, so perhaps there's some
sort of commercial port (I know there's wharf and marina, since it's often
shown on Psych. *g*) Okay, so Sunnydale has a small port which would
not be able to handle container ships, but might handle smaller ships. OTOH,
what would be shipped in or out of Sunnydale and then transferred to LA? For
that matter, wouldn't it more likely go by truck or rail to LA? Maybe it
served an oil rig?

2 One explanation based on the small port and old ships.

Faith stakes Trick. (beat)


No big deal. I was in the moment.

You know. You can't run far on that boat.


It's a tour boat. It just goes down the coast half a day and returns.

How do you know?

Buffy points over to the sign by the boarding ramp.

Damn. Missed that. Climbed up the side.


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DaddyCatALSO says:
(Thu Jul 25 16:21:46 2019
wolfguard Christopher Marlowe I find my *blush* gifts as an amateur theologian help me when designing g fantasy and horror scenarios.
The capital- G God (whether JEwish, Samaritan, Christian, Mandean Muslim, Sikh, Deist, Spiritualist, Bahai, Brahmo Samaj, I'm less sure about Zoroastrians,) is basically a idea. Regardless of one's take on miracles and interventions, that Idea is beyond any type of earthly circumference, including that of mythological gods. So the Idea is no more nor less relevant in those types of fiction than in any other.
As for Satan, well, I combine ideas taken from m what *some* scholars think Yazidis believe about their Melek TOus . I add in the speeches by the gang boss in Merrit's *Seven Footrpints To Satan* (back when he is still pretending to actually *be* the Adversary) about no longer beign interested in Hell, and Alexander vo Thorn's article in *Dragon* magazine "The Politics Of Hell" in which he describes how Satan was dethroned and exiled by Beelzebub, who was in turn dethroned by Asmodeus and demoted back to running a single plane in Hell. Allows me to use traditional critters without getting into a religious tangle.
I've done it in my fics, even. the bad guy in "Never Bet the DEvil Someone Else's" is called Beltagru, whom I see as one of the few devils who left the 9 Hells with Satan. And in "New MExico Rocky Mountain High," it ends with Mephistopheles himself possessing Giles and teleporting off .

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notsoShyGirl says:
(Thu Jul 25 15:28:13 2019
Trivia Girl
George H. W. Bush

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Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 25 13:59:03 2019
Watched "Consequences" with Daughter Cooper last night.

While Daughter Cooper wasn't exactly surprised about Faith's slow but steady slide toward becoming evil, she was pretty taken aback by how abruptly Faith shifted into full goose Dark Side mode at the end of the ep.

Which is not surprising considering the way the episode plays out. Throughout the entire ep the viewer is teased with a dangling shred of hope that Faith might still repent and turn away from evil....right up until that last scene when she strolls into the mayor's office.

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Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Jul 25 12:41:06 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial PUrsuit

Category: Presidents
Question: Who advocated for a Kinder, Gentler, Nation?

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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Jul 25 12:13:39 2019
Today Thursday, July 25th 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Grinn, Natty, Sassyeggs, Superrmk

Riley: Maybe I should just let you rest. Buffy: You sure? I bet if you just lay down with me- Riley: Nothing you are about to say will lead to rest. 'Buffy vs Dracula''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 25 05:49:55 2019
Edited: Thu Jul 25 05:51:51 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

Satan is often used in supernatural themed shows and Satan is in the New
Testament as are demons.1 Islam recognizes Satan and demons. That
said, we are probably on shaky ground, because we are reading translations
of words from ancient languages and worldviews. That, that said, I imagine
many Americans would associate "demon" and Satan with a biblical worldview.
"Americans" includes some film and television writers. *g*

The question is whether and how such associations shape a viewer's liking
for a given show. I know Christians who will have no part of supernaturally
themed shows and others who will, especially if Christianity is shown
defeating said demons. I know Christians who disapproved of elements of BtVS
and at least one Christian minister who spoke well of BTVS.

One problem in using biblical characters in a story set in contemporary
times is that all the human biblical characters are dead. Writers could
probably find a way around this - spirits, going back in time, etc. - but
then what? Most of the central characters were disciples. What can you do
with them? Would it offend some people?2

There have been many shows with priests and ministers (The
!), but then they are not really biblical characters.
Reaper had Satan - and a fine Satan indeed. *g* Joan of
had God - in many manifestations. OTOH, both shows only lasted
two seasons before being cancelled. :(

I stopped following Supernatural around 5th season (???), but I got
the impression that the episodes and arcs were chock full of God, Angels,
Demons and Devils. Doesn't seem to have hurt that show. What season is it in
now, 13?

To end, *g*, the good guy in most shows is the protagonist and tends to be
an original, fictional creation. No room for real-life religious good guys.
But every protagonist needs an antagonist. Demons fit the bill nicely.

1 Satan, as he's usually perceived today, is not so much present
in the Tanakh (Hebrew "Bible", Christian's Old Testament). The Hebrew
meaning is adversary or accuser.

2 While far from a supernatural-theme show, Gilmore Girls
did once bring the disciples into the picture, literally, in The Festival
of Living Arts
. Nutshell: Stars Hollow sponsored a showing of famous
works of art in which the real people stood in for the images of the people
in the art. One of the pictures was The Last Summer. Kirk was cast as
Jesus and took umbrage at the person cast as Judas. *g*


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ShadowQuest says:
(Thu Jul 25 05:05:34 2019
Zoom through

This is getting to be a habit!

lostinamerica I'm surprised
you didn't at least hear about the
14 confirmed tornadoes over Friday
night into late Saturday morning.
That's a lot for Wisconsin - in a
year we usually have 23.

I'll be putting my house up for
sale, once I get the rest of my
stuff out and we get it cleaned up.
Not what I want to do, but...

Yes, still doing the horses. Shows
are harder to get to these days,
though, so it's pretty much just for

Working on Joan of Arc armor for
this year's costume contest.
Entirely from craft foam. I've got
everything built, just need to fill
seams on the breast and back plates
and one pauldron, then prime and
paint all the pieces. Then make
leather strapping. Whee!

I think I'm addicted to doing
acrylic pours; tomorrow I'm planning
on a three-in-one - a vase over a
canvas, and a Christmas ornament.
Shades of blue, white and copper. I
really need to learn how to edit and
upload videos to YouTube!

Zoom, zoom

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white wings says:
(Thu Jul 25 04:48:25 2019
Happy Birthday Alyiania, BiffyBuffy, Dirty Socks, Kalika, and Mr.EverDawn

It was cool(ish) today! The high was something like 88!!! I walked out to check the mail and didn't feel like I was in an oven. But it was still better when the summer sun went down.

Christopher Marlowe - I agree about the term, but IMO it wasn't just overused. It was used to try to describe something too nebulous, and it didn't stand up to much thinking.

As for biblical characters in TV shows about gods and demons, my best guess is that some folks - maybe a lot of folks - are sensitive about that. Fatwahs don't get issued, but there could be talk.

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 25 03:12:03 2019
IN tv shows that have supernatural
theme, ie gods/angels/demons, you
don't see a lot of actual biblical
characters in them. Why?

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 25 00:59:59 2019
wolfguard, white wings I'm
not a fan of the term because I
think it is heavily overused and
lost most of it's meaning.

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Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Jul 25 00:36:24 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What was the name of Angel's son?
Anser: Connor

Trivia Master: notsoShyGirl
Trivia LOL: wolfguard!

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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 25 00:22:17 2019
finally home!

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lostinamerica says:
(Thu Jul 25 00:10:15 2019
ShadowQuest--Sorry to hear about that terrible storm, didn't make the news
here, like, at all :( Other than that life sounds good :)

What happened to your little house? And are you still decorating the horses?

Happy Birthday dirty socks!

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wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 24 18:23:00 2019
Trivia Girl,

Angelito or if Angel was reflecting on his human past, Gille Beag Liam (~Wee
Boy Liam). *g*


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notsoShyGirl says:
(Wed Jul 24 13:26:44 2019
Trivia Girl

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Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 24 12:34:35 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What was the name of Angel's son?

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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Jul 24 12:12:06 2019
Today Wednesday, July 23th 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Dirty Socks

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Alyiania, BiffyBuffy, Dirty Socks, Kalika

And we live to fight another day. Mal, 'Objects In Space''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

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white wings says:
(Wed Jul 24 05:04:03 2019
Happy Birthday Lord Misty Mage, NJ Wicca, Sententia, Sufi, and YOUNGBOB

Christopher Marlowe - Thanks for posting about the moon landing special. At least I think the one I checked on was probably the same. It was engrossing, anyway. I had to have a rather late dinner because of that, but the watching justified the waiting.

I think that "empowered" as a PC adjective today is a way of saying, "Isn't it cute how s/he thinks he has some power now. Let's not disillusion him/her, lest s/he be a nuisance to us, whereas now s/he is useful."

Agent Cooper - Your arguments would doubtless have so completely finished discussions by their brilliant clarity that it was actually a charitable act to allow us to natter on with our thoughts. *g* I'm sorry if RL is impinging unpleasantly on your time.

ShadowQuest - That looks like a forest after an avalanche. My brother has described Houston after a hurricane as leaf salad. This was tree salad. Sad and awesome. There were a few structures left that didn't have trees on them, but apparently not too many. I'm glad your power is back. I can't remember having to go more than 24 hours without power at home, and I did not like it.

wolfguard - I dunno about squaring circles. Magic was always an option to blur actions and motives into being forgiven. I think they used something like it to keep the parents tame and out of the way all along. The death rate would have required a lot of complacence to accept if they didn't forget. In the Buffyverse, anyway. *g* I heard someone call Baltimore "Murdermore" the other night, so apparently there's even more complacency in RL.

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ShadowQuest says:
(Wed Jul 24 04:13:50 2019
Zoom through

white wings Here's video of
what happened to Post Lake - it's
devastating. (Gonna just plonk the
link down here, since my laptop
makes everything in columns.) Post
Lake is an unincorporated census-
designated place located in the town
of Elcho, Langlade County,
Wisconsin, United States. Post Lake
is 12 miles southwest of Crandon. As
of the 2010 census, its population
is 374.

We got our power back today
(Tuesday), four days after the
storms hit Friday night.

14 confirmed tornadoes in the state
of Wisconsin in 24 hours. Unreal.

The Pelican Lake one was closest to
us - they're about 20 minutes north
of us.

In other news:

I've been considering doing a
"Buffy" rewatch - I binged the
entire series of "Game of Thrones"
in just under a month, so it'd be
kind of fun to see how long it'd
take me to watch "Buffy." (I
realize the number of episodes isn't

Maybe I can even get back into
writing "Buffy" fic.

But for now I'm heading back to

Zoom, zoom

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ChristiopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 24 02:03:15 2019
I'm currently watching a special on the Apollo 8 mission, great stuff!

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Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 24 01:05:09 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuits

Category: Buffy
Question: What villain was the
Dagon Sphere used against?
Answer: Glory

Triva Master: nosoShyGirl!

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Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 23 19:01:50 2019
It's been a crazy few days. Sorry about the non-postage.

Whup and life are conspiring to really curtail my Bronze time of late.

But I assure you I had some very pithy comments lined up about those christmas eps. I mean, sure, I've been so busy I don't remember exactly what I was going to say anymore. But rest assured, my arguments were irrefutably compelling and you would all have been completely gobsmacked by how totally correct I was about the subject. Yesiree...

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wlfguard says:
(Tue Jul 23 18:14:20 2019
Trivia Girl,

It works against dragons. Unless it's Dragon's Sphere in which case
the sphere belongs to dragons and one would have to ask them.

White Wings,

Your view squares the circle. It may be an out for the writers' untenable
position. *g*

Christopher Marlowe,

It depends on how the Buffyverse works with regard to potentials. If the
potentials had the power inside them, but could not access it, then Willow
empowered them.1 OTOH, if the potentials did not have the power
until the existing Slayer died and then power came from outside, then they
were not "empowered" as I used the work - free to use their innate

This may appear a difference without significance; however, being given
power as opposed to being free to use the power or potential power within is
significant to me. A simple case: Here folks, everyone gets $25,000 a year
no strings attached. This is a form of power, power handed to one.
Conversely, from here on out no one can deny your choice to pursue whatever
goal you wish so long as your actions do not hinder or hurt others.
2 This is potential power released, but different people will
have different mixes of power and will exercise those powers in different
physical and social environments. Some will be successful, some not.

In the Buffyverse a Slayer's power was demonic and came from outside. The
Shadow Men did not free potentials to use their innate powers, they put the
power into them. OTOH, the visuals of Willow's spell show bright ~gold light
implying a power different form demonic. Did it sweep across the world and
enter each potential or did it release some binding spell on power already
within the potentials? I don't think the Buffyverse - television canon -
says anything about this. I don't think it says anything about what causes a
girl to be a potential in the first place. Fertile ground for fanfic
writers. *g*

1 Note Willow did the deed, but Buffy chose to do it. If you
watched The Game of Thrones remember Ayra killed Littlefinger, but at
Sansa's order. If you're able to remember the beginning of the scene, Arya
ask Sansa, ~Are you sure you want to do this?~ Many people watching probably
thought Ayra was asking Sansa, ~ are you sure you want to put me on trial?~
but what she was asking, ~ are you sure you want me to execute Littlefinger?

2 Here we have one of the core tensions of societies here - how
can individuals be completely free in a society of individuals? I could have
used the phrase, "...your actions do not break the law", but then people
would say laws can limit peoples' freedoms. Realists or pragmatists except
trade-off's are part of life. Managing trade-offs is one way societies


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notsoShyGirl says:
(Tue Jul 23 13:10:30 2019
Trivia Girl

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Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 23 12:42:39 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuits

Category: Buffy
Question: What villain was the Dagon Sphere used against?

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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Jul 23 12:23:41 2019
Today Tuesday, July 23rd 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Charisma Carpenter as Cordelia Chase
Misty Mage

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Charisma Carpenter, Misty MAge, Sententia, Sufi, YOUNGBOB

Marco: Do we look reasonable to you? Mal: Well. Looks can be deceiving. Jayne: Not as deceiving as a low down dirty... deceiver. 'Out Of Gas'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 23 12:15:44 2019
wolfguard I asked, because I
am not a fan of the word, but
pondered if Slayers would be
considered 'empowered'.

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white wings says:
(Tue Jul 23 05:21:53 2019
ShadowQuest - It's good to hear about you. I'd read about power outages, but the news down here managed to omit mention of a small town being wiped out. Of course if your small towns are like our small "blink and you've missed it" towns with a post office, a little store, and a lot of farms, then our news down here might not have realized that it happened.

I'm glad you had a generator. It may not provide full comfort and internet, but it does help survival, especially for a multi-day outage. Being a live-in caregiver is a stressful occupation I'm glad you have family and cats and a dog, Buffy, and hobbies as a distraction.

Do come back from time to time as you can.

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white wings says:
(Tue Jul 23 05:10:57 2019
Happy Birthday Jai, piedog, Spikette, and Undead

wolfguard - I can't quite work my mind around your point about Gingerbread. It seems to me that it only works if in the show magic amplifies and directs the reactions of people and they can subsequently have their well-known amnesia. The audience can then happily overlook the behavior. The writers had to have known that from the beginning. Cc: DaddyCatALSO

The front has finally made its way into my area. It's vaguely cooler. The wind map has been interesting for days. The North wind has been forcing its way across the country from Texas to the East coast for days. The South wind has been resisting strongly. You could see the diagonal line very clearly. But the South wind has been inexorably forced back, and may be off the Texas coast by tomorrow. But this is summer and the South wind will rise again! At least until the end of September.

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ShadowQuest says:
(Tue Jul 23 05:05:38 2019
Edited: Tue Jul 23 05:07:18 2019
Zoom through

What does one do during 3 days of no
power and no internet? (Note: We do
have a generator.) Why, reread old
Buffy fanfic, while listening to
over 5 hours of Instrumental Buffy,
of course!

We were hit by a horrific storm on
Friday, which has left thousands
without power and completely wiped
out a small town northeast of us:

]Record Number Without Power[/a]

lostinamerica Hiya! As our
heroine said "Thanks for noticing!"

For the last three years I've been
my 95-year-old grandmother's live-in
caregiver. Her cat has apparently
adopted me (Much to Arwen's initial
chagrin, but now they share my bed,
so it's all good). I've recently
gotten into doing acrylic pours, and
still doing costuming (although
they're...ah...taking more material
these days).

I have a Facebook profile now (ask
Christopher Marlowe) and
that's where I mostly "hang out"

Still writing - wrote an entire
Quantum Leap "book" a couple three
years ago, and currently stuck on
the seventh chapter of the second
book, which is technically the first
in a trilogy. Oops.

The folks lost their Golden, Ty,
three years ago, but have a 2-year-
old named Sirius Dax now. He's a
sweetheart, and loves agility -
he'll jump up and walk the log pile
like a cat on a fence.

I have a new car, a dark blue 2008
Honda CR-V. Sweet little car -
sunroof, 6-CD player (Which means I
can listen to my entire Instrumental
Buffy collection, plus OMWF, on long
rides) and the trunk is at a height
where I don't have to bend over to
get stuff out, which is nice.

That's about it. I think I might
drop in from time to time more often
- I kinda miss the old place.

ETA: Bugger. Sorry about that link - I'm on a Chromebook, which I think bollixed
it up. I'm amazed I remembered the right code! It's been...years.

Zoom, zoom

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wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 23 03:21:57 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

Not thought about it much till now. *g*

It's freedom a person could not get on their own. Consider how the word is
used ...

X group needs to be empowered.

Y groups has been empowered.


We must empower X

Society must empower Y.

X and Y are direct objects of the verb "empower".

I used "freedom" because it at least implies X and Y have potential power,
but factors prevent the potential from being used. A specific example from
the past (?) ...

Girls can do math and science, but society puts obstacles in their way.
Remove the obstacles and girls will be free to exercise their abilities to
do math and science.

Nevertheless, "empowerment", in its contemporary usage, implies X needs help
in removing their chains.


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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 23 02:00:46 2019
wolfguard What is your view
of the term 'empowerment'

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Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 23 00:17:44 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Sports
Question: What is the official
sport of Maryland?
Answer: Jousting

Trivia Master: notsoshyGirl!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 22 18:25:48 2019
Edited: Mon Jul 22 18:26:43 2019

Gingerbread ask the BTVS writer, under what conditions does the
original BTVS M.O. work? And one ask, *g*, what is that M.O?

BTVS takes real-life high school problems and explores them using occult or
supernatural means. For instance, the real-life situation of being ignored
leading to being socially invisible, becomes literal in Out of Mind, Out
of Sight
aka "Invisible Girl". Another would the Oz-focus episodes,
Phases and Wild at Heart.

The problem with Gingerbread is if the theme is that people's
fears/angers can lead them to do terrible things then attributing the
characters actions to magick effectively discounts the message. We didn't
try to kill our kids, because of fear and anger. We were under the thrall of
of magick.

The demon created and urged along their anger and fear, but which of us
believe Joyce - in her right mind - would try to kill Buffy (or Willow's
mother, Willow)? I don't and the writers appeared to have second thoughts,
because the story moves to blaming the parents' behavior as being under a
spell which ended when Giles chanted the magick words.

Now, parents certainly do bad thing to their kids and given the 'right'
parent, BTVS could write such episodes. Season 1.3 - The Witch is the
classic example. In real-life many parents try to live their lives through
their kids. Amy's mom, Catherine, did it literally. But Joyce? No.


^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Mon Jul 22 16:09:54 2019|
lostinamerica white wings wolfguard "Gingerbread" It is confusing at times; it only works (MOO's approach, as has been pointed out elsewhere, is illogical even by fundamentalist standards) if the enchantment kicked in early, entered in a rush, perhaps when Joyce saw the bodies, and again perhaps passed as a contagion from her to the rest of the town.

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Mon Jul 22 13:52:28 2019
Trivia Girl

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Jul 22 12:38:55 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Sports
Question: What is the official
sport of Maryland?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Jul 22 12:17:05 2019
Today Monday, July 22nd 2019 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Jai, piedog, Spikette, Undead

This must be what going mad feels like. Simon, 'Jaynestown'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 22 12:10:14 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 22 06:27:18 2019
White Wings,



^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 22 05:20:34 2019
Note to self: Don't go digging in peat bogs. Also don't go poking around
mountain tops in the Andes.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 22 04:41:31 2019
Edited: Mon Jul 22 04:45:18 2019
White Wings & Lostinamerica,

Follows list of peat bog bodies from northern Europe. Appear to be
sacrifices, though some might argue executions as another possible cause.


Inca children sacrifices...


^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 22 04:32:00 2019
Christopher Marlowe - How could there be a busier than usual Sunday for you? *g* I hope it was fun, anyway.

I went out a little too early and pruned crepe myrtle branches that were encroaching on the fig and getting in my way to the figs. The sun was going down, and so was the temperature, but I had to go inside and rest and wait for full dusk to finish cutting things up for the trash. I had considered virtuous indoor activities earlier. I was going to vacuum the lower bedrooms, but I would have disturbed the two bucks, the doe, and the fawn that were taking a siesta in a shady part of the lawn. Naturally I couldn't do anything else, so I retired to a recliner. *g*

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 22 00:54:58 2019
Home after a busier-than-usual

^ v
white wings says:
(Sun Jul 21 20:41:28 2019
Edited: Sun Jul 21 22:42:40 2019
Happy Birthday Jenn, levitation junkie, Miss Edith, and R o B

lostinamerica - They said that building the house in Mexico beach was only about $10K over a house built to standards, because the Florida standards were made much higher. I'm not entirely certain I believe that, but there's no question that it was an expensive house by any standards. I don't think that most people would be able to afford the base house, let alone the extra building. Things like the piers going 28 feet underground may have been an engineering necessity for a house of that size built on a beach with or without being built for a CAT 5 hurricane, but I don't know. I vaguely remember an interview after Michael in which the owner said they should have put some door in between two floors because there was spray coming up, and they hadn't thought of that. However, in a more recent interview they said they were adding more hurricane clips to secure the roof, more sway bracing, and rethinking the concrete slab underneath.

It may be that something built more like the dome over a nuclear reactor would be more secure. I mean, Fukushima wouldn't have been such a disaster if there hadn't been a reactor inside. I think the buildings remained intact from the tsunami.

It took a while for the fig to start to bear in my yard. It was just a young sprout when I bought this house, and now it's a good size. In fact I can't reach all the fruit. That just has to be left for birds, squirrels, and wasps.

You do remember the saying about mad dogs, Englishmen, and noon day sun? I'm surprised you only napped for two hours afterwards. You're a stronger woman than I am, Gungamerica. *g* Umbrellas are good. When I went to a family reunion in San Antonio this spring, we went on a barge along the Riverwalk. We all had umbrellas, because there was threat of rain. Instead of rain pouring down on us, there was sun. I suddenly realized that we were all crazy and put up my umbrella. Everyone's expressions changed and the barge sprouted umbrellas, and we were all much happier.

wolfguard, lostinamerica - I remember thinking when Joyce started speaking about taking the town back after being silent that the show might change completely, but then she went off the rails and started blaming the wrong people, so the Buffyverse was not fundamentally changed. *g* I believe there was also an element of RL mob mentality involved. Unquestionably, magic got us over a lot of bumps in the Buffyverse.

You are right to limit the discussion. Honor killings are alive and well in RL. I only ever seem to hear about girls being killed by their own families, and I always think of Cordelia's claim that if it was male parts being removed, religious sacrifices would be greatly diminished. But one has to forget about the Mayans and/or Aztecs to think that.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 21 18:35:48 2019

Looking back at Gingerbread, I'm thinking the writers or
Joss1 had second thoughts about its theme, but too late in the
process to begin anew. I think they began with the idea or belief that
people can be moved by emotion or passion to do bad things.

Two children are found dead in the park with signs of the occult afoot (the
markings). Good people gathered to remember (happens all the time in real
life), but then one speaks out - Joyce - saying we need to do more than
light candles and remember. We need to act against the source of such
outrages.2 Off they go - MOO. And where does it lead?

There was the problem. Under what conceivable circumstances would most
parents try to kill or kill their kids?3 The writers had to try
to turn back to magick. We see a scene or two where the two dead "kids"
haunt/advise Joyce and others. We've shown the scoobies discovering who is
behind it and how to defeat them with magick. Giles does the magick and the
adults are visibly depicted as coming out of zombie-like trances.

The original idea reflects reality - people brought to certain emotional
states will do things they could not imagine doing otherwise. But that's not
something you want to say, at least about Buffy and Willow's parents, and
then have to live with through the rest of the series.4

1 Early on writers told fans how they went about breaking a
story. Setting aside where an idea came from, one or more writers would be
assigned to do a story and the drafts would go to Joss for vetting, editing,

2 The Mayor ask Joyce to come to the podium where she is to lead
everyone in a moment of silence. Joyce steps up - pauses, taking things in -
and then says hell no. This is not a good town. Bad things happen here.
Silence is a disease. Grown-ups need to take the town back from monsters,
witches, and slayers (cut-to faces of Buffy, Willow, Giles)

3 Had to use "most", because parents do kill their kids and over
history kids have been sacrificed in some cultures.

4 There was some talk around third or fourth season doing a story
where one of the characters was raped. I believe it was Willow. I posted
this would be a major mistake, because its effects on Willow could not be
resolved in an episode and be believable and if believable would haunt her
for the rest of the series' run.


^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sun Jul 21 14:00:49 2019
white wings, wolfguard--That's still an amazing photo, the one house
that stood in what was Mexico Beach, which I think is still struggling :( The
owners never did say how much they spent on it, just that they built it over
and above what was required, so I'm guessing a lot and probably out of the
range of many people :(

white wings--I love figs, enjoy! I considered getting an avocado tree
until I found out it would take 5-6 years before it would bear fruit :(

ChristopherMarlowe, white wings--Like crazy people we went to a sporting
event yesterday from 11-2 in the full heat of the day and I promptly went home,
drank even more water and slept for almost 2 hours :(

Agent Cooper, wolfguard, DaddyCatALSO, white wings--Sorry, I don't get
the parallels between the two either.

Agent Cooper--The Wish is one of my favorite episodes for just
that reason, it's darkness, but then I'm evil :) And I never bought parents
going against their children so quickly in Gingerbread, maybe magic was

Happy Belated Birthday Lady Ireland, Slayed Soul and AussieBulldog!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Jul 21 12:57:01 2019
Good morning beta!

Happy Birthday to Circa
Vanessa#2*, Jenn, levitation junkie
Miss Edith, and R o B!!! Our weekend birthday bronzers!

^ v
white wings says:
(Sun Jul 21 02:49:18 2019
Christopher Marlowe - Having you alive is good. Napping is good. Waffles in all their forms are pretty darned good. I was drooling just a bit over your post. *g* As for your weather, I'm glad someone had it.

But all is not grim in my world. My fig tree had enough ripe figs for me to enjoy and take a bowl over to some even older neighbors. The sunset was pretty, it's down to 88, and the stuff at whup is all done that began with an 8:55am call from a penitent programmer, went through problems with the logging-into-whup PC, then figuring out how the penitent programmer can proceed without bringing the system down around our ears.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Jul 21 01:52:08 2019
white wings I am not dead!
napping does wonders. The temp
today was very nice, great day for
just wandering around. Began the
day with a apple fritter waffle,
Ended the day with a big scoop of
chocolate ice cream in a waffle

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 20 20:47:19 2019
Happy Birthday Circa and Vanessa#2!

Christopher Marlowe - Are you still dead, or are you out basking in your 74 degree weather?

wolfguard - A north wind is coming, but winter is a rather long way behind. *g* The wind map is showing a battle line between north and south from the Illinois-Wisconsin border to the south of Colorado, and back up through Wyoming and Idaho. The deep South is resisting with winds from the Gulf Coast, and the southwest is throwing winds from Mexico and the Pacific that are passing over desert on their way to the front. The West seems to just be milling around trying to stay out of it. Palm Springs has come down from highs around 114 to a balmy 103.

I'm just cowering inside. My fig tree is starting to ripen if I can beat the birds, wasps, squirrels, raccoons, and deer, but if I go out now I'll upset a doe and fawn resting in the neighbor's shade, and I might get a little too hot.

Has anyone watched the trailer for Dora and the Lost City of Gold? I swear to the PTB that there's a Buffy, a Cordelia and a Xander. There's also a high school (at least briefly) that is reminiscent of Sunnydale High. Although there is also a strange man saying "Come with me if you want to live", so perhaps there's a nod to several traditions. Anyway, I don't think we've had a Hispanic slayer yet, so this works quite well.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 20 18:55:57 2019

Happy Summer Afternoon!

Winter is Coming :(


^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 20 02:53:13 2019
Happy Birthday AuntiAm, Bibbikinz, Bronze-Age Betty, Lady Ireland, and Maldwyn!

Christopher Marlowe - Gee, you get what, about 10 days before meetings start up again? However will you survive? ;-)

I think we're all dead. We may not all be pretty, but I'll settle for not having fruit punch mouth. *g* It's hot out there. We have to conserve energy. Maybe next week we'll be talky meat.

Napping is a good and normal activity. I did some today after concluding that it was time to vacuum again.

Agent Cooper - You allowed whup to swallow you too? Or did you succumb to summer?

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 20 02:41:43 2019
I may be dead, but I'm still

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 20 00:42:52 2019
Ack! After a long day at work I
come home and accidentally nap for
ac couple hours.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Jul 19 17:58:30 2019
Okay so Whup is busy but I will answer later.

And yes, I'm giving myself 3.5 billion demerit points. Because I'm all about fairness...

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Jul 19 12:19:06 2019
Today Friday, July 19th 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Bronze-Age Betty
Lady Ireland

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to AuntiAm, Bibbikinz, Bronze-Age Betty, Lady Ireland, Maldwyn

It's simple. I slap 'em around a bit, torture 'em, make their lives hell...Sure, the nice guys'll run away,but every now and then you'll find a prince like Spike who gets off on it.
Buffy, 'I Was Made To Love You''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 19 12:09:11 2019
]b]white wings[/b] It was a wrap-up
meeting on the three-day festival I
worked at the past weekend. No
more meetings until next month!

^ v
white wings says:
(Fri Jul 19 03:45:01 2019
Happy Birthday Cobby, Elerie Megan, Lisl Fox, Morrigan, Nansi Elin, SlayerGemUK, WillowBBF, and XERO

Agent Cooper - :P This was a whup day for me. Be grateful for any daytime posting. (On non-whup days I have to concentrate even more on sleeping late. *g*)

I think the main parallel between The Wish and It's a Wonderful Life was the whole "what if" scenario. But it's a very strong one, since we are still noticing it twenty years later. The main beneficiary of the lesson in this case learned her mistake and then died rather promptly. It was Giles who saved the day by deciding that his reality was rock bottom, and I don't see him in the movie.

From a shipper's POV, the main contribution of The Wish was to display Angel's faithfulness and dedication to making amends even without smoochies. Which of course leads to Amends. How long did Daughter Cooper take to figure out that Angel was being made rather crazy from sleep deprivation, guilty dreams, and evil whispering in his ear? Amends brings to the shipper Xander's finally letting up on Buffy a bit, some dream closeness between the eternally separated lovers for the shippers, the attempt at nobility and declarations of love on the cliff, and the miracle snow of redemption. *sniff* I loved it. ;-)

Yeah, Gingerbread was depressing. It reminds me of politics these days. But the ending was funny. "She couldn't have done us first?"

Daughter Cooper is too innocent. As an older watcher, I knew Angel wouldn't be offed in that episode. But I greatly feared that he wouldn't get out of Sunnydale intact at the end of the season. I knew there would be a spinoff, but I feared he'd be brought back in LA in some other form. We all have these dark thoughts. *g*

wolfguard - Clarence was earning his wings. Remember, when a bell rings, it means that an angel has earned his wings? I've forgotten a lot of the details of the plot, but I remember the bell on the tree ringing.

Christopher Marlowe - Long day, but maybe not as long as last week?

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 19 03:15:50 2019
finally home.....

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Thu Jul 18 20:39:52 2019
wolfguard Agent Cooper Epsiodes like The Wish are *always* compared to *It's a Wonderful Life* by some critics. I don't really sympathize much with George Bailey; instead of sticking with Clarence and letting him explain things, he runs alone around town like a crazy man arguing with people who've never seen him about *their* lives

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 18 19:51:49 2019
Wolfguard - Let me think about this. I still see parallels.

PS - You are exempt from the demerits. You're the night guy. This is overtime for you. :-P

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 18 18:16:15 2019
Agent Cooper,

Disagree on the comparison between The Wish and It's a Wonderful
. Consider ...

In IAWL George Bailey, the protagonist, is contemplating suicide as a way to
solving his problems. An angel is sent to persuade him why he should not.
1 The Angel does so by showing George what would have happened
without him.

In contrast, Buffy was never, ever contemplating suicide. The "wish" came
from Cordelia and bizarro-Cordelia learned her lesson - even before being
killed by vamp Willow and vamp Xander (Cordelia tell bizarro-Giles Sunnydale
was better for Buffy, if only for the dress style (cause everyone was
avoiding bright colors so as not to attract vampires)).

Also of note, "The Wish" in It's a Wonderful Life are the prayers of
George's family and/or friends, because they sense he is despondent. And the
Angel in It's a Wonderful Life is a demon in The Wish.

Another note! I just checked a synopsis of the movie. There is an antagonist
who is trying to take control of the town. George has been the only
defense. Ready for the big bad's name? Henry Potter. *g*

Finally, a word about Faith. The Wish follows Lover's Walk,
the episode where one could rightly say Willow and Xander betrayed Oz and
Cordelia. It was this betrayal that lead Cordelia to make the wish.

Lover's Walk was preceded by Revelations, the episode where
ex-watcher Gwendolyn Post betrayed her calling and played Faith for a fool.
What did Faith learn? Ponder on that. Buffy did, because the teaser to
The Wish has Buffy, Xander, and Willow fighting some big, bad demon.
Demon has Buffy by the throat. BUFFY - knurf, knurf!!! Willow tosses her a
knife which Buffy uses to dispatch the demon. They then settle down on
picnic table (?) and discuss life. Buffy says Faith is on another one of her
walkabouts and is concerned about Faith spending too much time alone. It's
not good. Willow or Xander ask Buffy how she handles the pressure, etc.
BUFFY - I got you guys.

1 The Angel is also either earning his spurs/wings or redeeming
himself (don't remember which).


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 18 18:07:30 2019
You know guys, it's not a half day.

Everybody take 50,245 Bronze demerits for not showing up today!

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 18 14:21:48 2019
Trivia Girl: Fear of Glossy Printed Products.

White Wings: Oh no. You wake up right now and start posting! This is a normal duty day at the Bronze.

I hereby dock you 53,000 Bronze Points for lateness...

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 18 14:15:18 2019
Watched "The Wish" Tuesday night and "Gingerbread" and "Amends" last night with Daughter Cooper.

She did NOT like the "Wish", she said it was too dark and very upsetting. Which, I pointed out to her, was the intended effect.

DC wasn't very fond of "Gingerbread" either. I think she was kind of shocked how easily the parents turned against their kids.

She liked "Amends" better, once she figured out that the First was controlling Angel. She got pretty emotional when Angel decided to die rather hurt Buffy. She thought that was incredibly noble. She actually thought Angel was going to die in that ep, which upset her. She was very happy when he didn't.

Noteworthy to mention that during Amends, Daughter Cooper said "there's something wrong with Faith, isn't there. I don't trust her." So she's already kind of picking up on that.

A final note, I've come to realize that both "The Wish" and "Amends" are basically Christmas episodes. "Amends" for obvious reasons and "The Wish" as a straight up take on "It's a Wonderful Life."

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Thu Jul 18 14:02:34 2019
Trivia Girl
Public speaking

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Jul 18 12:39:56 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Phobias
Question: What do you fear when you have Glossophobia?

^ v
white wings says:
(Thu Jul 18 12:36:47 2019
Good morning, Christopher Marlowe!

*turns over in sleep*

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Jul 18 12:34:20 2019
Today Thursday, July 18th 2019 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Elerie Megan
Lisl Fox
Nansi Elin

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Cobby, Elerie Megan, Lisl Fox, Morrigan
Nansi Elin, SlayerGemUK, WillowBBF, XERO

Fred: Oh my God! Angel, you'recute! Angel: Fred, don't! Fred: Oh, but the little hands! And the hair! Angel: Hey! You're fired. 'Smile Time''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 18 12:27:32 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 18 01:29:21 2019
Listening to local jazz and buying
tix to a local musical..

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 17 23:42:34 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: The Resikhian Urn
contained what enemy of Angel?
Answer: Sajhan.

Trivia master: notsoShyGirl!

^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 17 22:56:49 2019
Happy Birthday Old One's Oldest and Slayed Soul!

Slayed Soul - Good to see the birthday poster back!

wolfguard - You aren't the only one with a stubborn brother. *g* Mine finally decided that after listening to the Houston mayor telling them to shelter in place during Ike, he would ride out subsequent hurricanes in Central Texas, thank you very much. But as a boy he had been caught at the next to last climbing station on Mt. Fuji during a typhoon and run down the mountain during the eye of the storm with the rest of his troop, and he and I both rode out super Typhoon Vera (though greatly reduced) at home. That was enough to make me think that it didn't pay to be cavalier with Mother Nature.

I remember that parts of the East coast tend to have massive flooding if a hurricane goes inland. I expect it's all those mountains concentrating rivers.

Austin is much like Atlanta. Mostly we face thunderstorms, hail, and tornadoes. There was one hurricane where all the people with light planes on the coast flew to the private airport in Austin to protect them. We had one little tornado spun off from the hurricane. Guess where? You have more ice storms than we do, but we tend to have snow or ice about every decade. There was one winter when it dropped to 10 degrees and stayed there for a week. We lost all the variegated pittisporum and Chinese tallow trees, and most of the rosemary that year. The plumbers had a lot of business from broken faucets. I counted myself lucky that my outside faucets froze, but did not break.

DaddyCatALSO - There will be NO super-tsunamis. I forbid it.

Agent Cooper - That seems to be the story of a lot of life in the service. But it was still a wise precaution. They did all those things for Michael, and the base still didn't fare very well, but better than if they hadn't.

Ah, down to 95, and the humidity is .. 44%. I think I'll wait a couple of hours before walking. But the sun is dropping, which makes it feel less fiery outside.

^ v
Slayed Soul says:
(Wed Jul 17 19:01:29 2019
Thank you so much for this yearly trip down
memory lane!!!

Long live the Bronze Beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 17 18:38:53 2019
Agent Cooper,

If a naval base is in the path of a hurricane, the Navy sends the ships out
to sea. The Navy believes ships have a better chance maneuvering. Ergo, USAF
should send their planes skyward! *G*


I've come across that scenario a couple times and have passed it on more.
*g* That said, somewhere recently read it's actually not that likely to
happen. Who knows?

Thought I had first read of it in McGuire's Global Catastrophes: A Very
Short Introduction
so just visited Amazon hoping it might have the
potential disaster use to introduce the book and so would be on the "first
pages". Didn't see it, but did read an interesting thought experiment.

McGuire begins saying one day the Sun will go nova and the Earth will end.
Will humans be around to experience it? Probably not. His reasoning is that
the nova ending is billions of years away and this would mean those people
living today are living near the 'dawn" of such a human lifespan. How likely
is this to be true, that humans are just beginning their run on Earth?

He offered another person's thought experiment. Here it is ...

Imagine you're name is in a lottery pool. There is a 50% chance that there
are 1,000 names in the pool. There is also a 50% chance that there are only
10 names in the pool. The host begins drawing names and the third draw is
your name. If the lottery pool had held 1,000 names, how likely would it be
yours would be the third name pulled? It's much more likely your name would
be the third drawn if the pool only held 10 names.1

Note: There's nothing special about it being your name. What's really being
asked is what are the odds that any single given name would be the third one
drawn given a 1,000 pool lottery vs a 10 pool lottery.

1 Simplify the question. What are the odds that any one given
name would be drawn from a lottery size of 10?

It's 1/10 or .10 or 10%

What are the odds that any one given name would be drawn from a lottery size
of 1,000?

It's 1/1000 or .001 or 0.1%

Consequently, humans are more likely to go extinct long before the Sun goes
nova (at least in the solar system).


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Jul 17 18:02:01 2019
Chris Marlowe: RE Nelly. LOLOLOL I just sprayed coke out of my nose...

Wplfguard: Well, there is a hellmouth in Ohio. Why not Minnesota?

Wolfguard/White Wings: I was stationed at Pope AFB in NC back in 1989-90ish (Oh God another one of Agent Cooper's dumb service stories!) when Hurricane Hugo was heading toward the Carolinas. It was a big deal. All the planes on the field were flown inland and all the civilian staff evacuated. We worked like dogs for 3 days straight without much sleep battening down the airfield and all the buildings around it, packing away everything that was loose and tying down anything that couldn't be packed away or sent elsewhere.

The storm completely missed us, of course. So we spent another 3 days putting everything back together.

Hugo ended up making landfall further south and as I remember it was still pretty strong when it hit the coast and did alot of damage.

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Wed Jul 17 14:09:26 2019
Agent Cooper Well, I knew and didn't even watch Little House!

wolfguard white wings Well if that western face on one of the Canaries gives out, the super-tsunami will likely take out your town, and mine, and the Paper Mill on the Potomac. That's one of the first disasters the SuperDarkWillow in my Ice Age Buffy fics causes

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Wed Jul 17 13:24:38 2019
Trivia Girl

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 17 12:36:23 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: The Resikhian Urn contained what enemy of Angel?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Jul 17 12:16:04 2019
Today Wednesday, July 17th 2019 C.E.

We have TWO (2) Birthdays!

Old One's Oldest
Slayed Soul

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Old One's Oldest, Slayed Soul,

Does anybody mind if I pass out? Willow, 'The Harvest'i]

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 17 05:40:32 2019
White Wings,

Back in the 90's my father chose to ride out a hurricane in the town New
Bern. It's up the Neuse River from Pamlico Sound and around 40 miles from
the coast. Afterwards he told me he would not do it again.

One of my brothers did stay on the barrier island during a hurricane last
year. His wife and kids went inland to Raleigh, but he believed he needed to
stay with home and business. Total lost of power. I was texting him news
including what was happening just across the intra-Acoastal waterway from
him. Afterwards he vowed to buy uber-power generators for then next time.

Because of the shape of the NC coast, going inland is no guarantee of
avoiding being hit. During one hurricane several of the family went to
Raleigh (about two hours drive from the coast). The hurricane came in from
the south bypassing the coastal towns and went straight across Raleigh.
While there was no surge threat, there was much rain and wind leading to
flooding and power loss.

Atlanta faces few natural risks, primarily thunderstorms and tornadoes.
Every few years a bit of snow and ice knocks us flat for the count. *g* That
said, I recall being out of power for 10-14 days one Fall due to storms spun
off from a hurricane. Amicalola Falls lies a couple hours north of Atlanta.
Once when I as hiking up there I noticed dozens of downed large trees. Asked
the ranger about it. She said it was ~windfall from storms spawned off of a


^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 17 03:20:21 2019
Happy Birthday AusieBulldog, davidboreanazishot, I'm Kid, Ranna, and Vviolet's daughter!

wolfguard, lostinamerica - You can also google "Panama City hurricane proof house". It's more traditional looking. There's another on (I forget) the Mississippi or Alabama Gulf coast that was under construction, but stood when everything around it was wiped from the foundations by Katrina. It was also concrete construction.

I think the "Eye of the Storm" dome house is open on the bottom level. It's hard to see from the pictures, but one description of it said it could be used as a car port. The rounded structure does look more windproof. The one in Florida has many posts that raise it 12' above ground, but extend 28' below ground. It is (or was) being strengthened further with bracing and more hurricane clips, but the owner said he was going to remove the slab and replace it with pavers, because the surge pushed the slab against the concrete posts and cracked some. The third one, that survived Katrina, had a post-tension slab, which apparently worked, but googling to find out what that is reveals that there is both good and bad about it. The owner of the one that withstood Michael did not plan to be at home during hurricanes. He wasn't during Michael. He just installed remote cameras so that he could watch what was happening.

Myself, I think trying to survive storm surge is unpredictable at best. If you are only dealing with water, maybe you'll make it, but if the surge brings in a ship to ram against the house, it's hard to see much withstanding that. I like hills. And distance. And luck.

Agent Cooper - I could believe the hellmouth in Walnut Grove, although there didn't seem to be a lot of vampires. But Almanzo is Hank Summers? That means he has the same kind of longevity as the Mayor. This is worrisome. cc: wolfguard

wolfguard - There are an insane number of deaths and homes ravaged around the Indian Ocean every year in monsoon season. I find it hard to envision. The only saving grace is that many of the homes are fairly easily rebuilt. That was a rationale given for the rather flexible and rickety houses in Japan, at least when I was there in the late 50's. They could flex for earthquakes, but if they gave way it wasn't so hard to rebuild. Typhoons were more difficult.

The flood plain issue is, as you have noted, a difficult one. There's a flood plain near me that frequently floods. People built and rebuilt because the land was cheap. It worked in droughts. Come El Nino, it was more difficult. But finally they began to lose heart, and a city program to buy out the land is almost working. We have an area near one of our variable-level lakes that floods when the lake rises. It's a planned part of the flood control. That land is also cheap, but the people who built there built on stilts, and any part of the homes that are below the spillway level of the dam are concrete. If they flood, there are no complaints, they just pull together to clear debris and wash off the concrete. They like being by the lake that much. I feel sorrier for the people in Houston who were below some dams that had to be opened to protect the structures in Harvey. No one ever planned to do that. The people weren't told they were in a flood plain, and weren't required to have insurance.

By the coast, well, you pays your money and you takes your chances. I wondered about Rockport (Texas), where the new posh district is in a spit of land broken by little canals. The old posh district was on a road above a cliff filled with oak trees blown sideways into scrub. Big elegant houses were built in the new one. Multi-story, rock-faced houses. The old weather-beaten houses were on stilts. The new ones were not. I was at a party in one years ago, and asked about hurricanes, and the owner just shrugged and said they were 10' above the water. Then Harvey hit, and hung over Rockport for an interminable length of time. I don't know how those houses fared, but looking at Zillow, there seemed to be a lot of damage. I wish your brother would come inland for hurricanes.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 17 03:00:52 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

Pa would reckon that's why Jenny survived and recovered from her near


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 17 02:31:36 2019

Little house on the Hellmourh.
What would Pa say?

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 17 00:45:41 2019
wolfguard, Agent Cooper,
That explains

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 17 00:06:20 2019
unnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What was the name of Oz's band?
Answe: Babies Ate My Dingo! no...wait...Dingos Ate My Baby!

Trivia masters: notsoShyGirl, Agent Cooper!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 16 20:58:12 2019
Agent Cooper,

Little known fact. Walnut Grove had a hellmouth and Jenny Wilder was a
potential. It's true! *g*


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 16 19:49:06 2019
Daddycatalso: I have low mental capacity and am easily gobsmacked by simple coincidence.

I mean, there was a connection this whole time between Little House and Buffy? Who knew?!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 16 18:37:25 2019

Typo! *g*

Intracoastal Waterway

My bad.


^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Tue Jul 16 18:24:50 2019
Agent Cooper Not really sure what you're suspecting here....

wolfguard I'm sure the barrier islands in different spots are different sizes. Not sure what you meant by "on an inland waterway." The part I drove over to a meeting back in '88-ish were basically ocean-back yard-building (house or shop)-road-building-back yard-channel. The hotel where the meeting was held was likely on a broader part

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 16 17:38:27 2019

Dome on stilts?

One of my brothers lives on a barrier island in NC. Family's business is on
the island. House and business lie on inland waterway, but the Atlantic
ocean is only about a quarter mile away.

While there are million+ dollar homes on the island there are also people
living in "mobile" homes (placed on ~permanent foundations). Storm comes,
the check their windsocks, batter the windows and close the doors.

As I understand it, the federal government provides some sort of subsidized
insurance for people with homes on the coast. Some people disapprove of
this, because they believe people who willingly build homes on the
beach/coast are probably more willing, because of this subsidy. But I have a
dog, or a dog one step removed *g*, in this debate.

The issue could also be applied to people who build homes in flood plains.
1 But I've heard more than one person who has faced such flood
damage say it was worth it to live where they do. OTOH, there are millions
of people who have no choice in living on a flood plain or on a coast
frequently visited by hurricanes. I imagine this applies to all folks living
in Bangladesh. Years before Hurricane Katrina there were reports and
warnings saying it was only a question of time before New Orleans went
under. Miami probably has a wetter future (those damn pythons will soon be
swimming into their homes *g*).

1 Though a flood "plain" doesn't have to be big to cause
problems. A lot of people discover that creek close by under the wrong
conditions can become a river or lake.


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 16 16:26:31 2019
Trivia Girl: Dingoes Ate My Baby, Baby!

Speaking of trivia, I was having lunch with my wife today and she was chatting about her cousin who lives out west and works at the Laura Ingalls Wilder Museum in Walnut Grove.

Mrs. Cooper showed me a picture her cousin had sent her of one of the museum staff posing with Dean Butler, the guy who played Almanzo on the Little House TV show.

And then she casually pointed out that Dean Butler had also played Buffy's dad on BTVS.

I never suspected this. Almanzo is Hank Summers???

Mind. Blown.

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Tue Jul 16 14:23:40 2019
Trivia Girl
Dingoes Ate My Baby

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 16 12:28:07 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What was the name of Oz's band?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Jul 16 12:16:50 2019
Today Tuesday, July 16th 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Im Kid
Vviolet's daughter

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to AussieBulldog, davidboreanazishot, Im Kid, Ranna, Vviolet's daughter,

Marco: Do we look reasonable to you? Mal: Well. Looks can be deceiving. Jayne: Not as deceiving as a low down dirty... deceiver. 'Out Of Gas'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 16 12:10:16 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Tue Jul 16 12:01:02 2019
wolfguard--I did--blech :( And what happens when the water gets
too high, it breaks the windows and flows through the bottom floor, did
I get that right? That doesn't seem like much of an improvement to a house on

cc white wings

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 16 05:21:08 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

I am. Just watched two tonight.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 16 03:07:59 2019

Are you still doing the great

^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Jul 16 03:07:44 2019
Happy Birthday Angelusz, BuffyisdaBomb, Chris Golden, Chrisa, WB Watcher, Rainbow Connection, and Zygy! and/or Dead Still Pretty(DSP), Kiba Rika, redruM, and RobinTSH!

Agent Cooper - I had no doubt that Daughter Cooper would be a fervent B/A shipper at this point. The question is, how will she deal with the events of GD2? How will she feel about Parker and then Riley? How will she feel about the *spit* peroxide pest? And on AtS, how will she deal with the onset of St. Cordelia? There's a long road ahead to test her shipping.

I'm glad the meeting went as well as it did. But it's quite possible that they will help each other cover their failing abilities, so you'll need to be very watchful indeed.

That seems to have been an impressive introduction to the shuttle. Basic training seems to broaden a lot of vocabularies. *g*

Christopher Marlowe - It might have been what is referred to as "colorful" language. ;-)

lostinamerica - Sunk in concrete in a big pad that would float in one piece, or down to bedrock, I'd guess. I don't know how easy bedrock is to come by on the beach or in swamps, though. Those raised houses did all seem to be standing this time. There were many on Galveston Island that were not behind the seawall that did not survive during Ike (I think it was Ike, perhaps it was earlier). And Panama City lost almost everything during Michael, except for that one raised house that was built to over Cat 5 standards.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 16 02:58:58 2019
Lostinamerica & White Wings,

Google "Sullivan Island hurricane proof house"


^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Tue Jul 16 02:00:11 2019
white wings--All I know is I'd want the posts for my stilt house sunk in
concrete :) I wonder if they are?

Agent Cooper--Glad to hear your parents have options, for now--will they
be able to live together in assisted living? One couple we knew of had to live
apart, he was much worse than her :(

Happy Birthday Kiba Rika!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 16 01:30:16 2019
Agent cooper

Tsk tsk. Such language!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 16 00:36:44 2019
Agent Cooper,

A wise TI.



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Jul 16 00:16:05 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Spaaaaaaaaaace!
Question: What was the very first
Space Shuttle?
Answer: Enterprise

Trivia Master:
wolfguard!...spoiled my cunning
Trivia Oh So Close:
notsoShyGirl, Agent Cooper!

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Jul 15 20:11:58 2019
Trivia Girl: HAH!

Wolfguard/Trivia Girl: When I was at basic training for the Air Force at Lackland AFB in Texas, I saw the space shuttle (not sure which one) fly directly overhead being transported, mounted piggyback on a 747.

My training flight was standing at attention in the parade yard at the time. All of a sudden this thing appears flying low and directly overhead right over us and we all completely lose discipline and start to look up and stare at it in awe. Our TI, who's back was to the shuttle, thought it just another jet (they were always flying by of course and you got used to it quick) and became IRATE, and started screaming at us


Then he looks back to see what we are staring at and sees it's the space shuttle going by.


(waits a beat for it go by and disappear over a building, all the while muttering curse words.)

(It goes by)


So yeah, I'll never forget the day I saw the space shuttle in person. Heh. :-)

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 15 18:11:36 2019
Trivia Girl,

Yours of today could be seen as a trick question, because the first
Space Shuttle was the Enterprise. It was used to run flight tests in
the atmosphere, including approach and landings.1 I believe its
first landing was in August 1977. I was at swimming pool, actually in an
overlooking rec room watching it on TV. The young folks (imagine their age
now) seemed oblivious to want was happening, but most of the adults had
tears in their eyes. I did. *g*

Why trick question? Enterprise lacked some components needed to go
into space. She was built for testing and eventually retired to the
Smithsonian, though She is now at the Intrepid Sea, Air, and Space Museum in

1 Enterprise was mounted on top a Boeing 747.


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Jul 15 16:43:35 2019
Trivia Girl: I thought it was Enterprise.

White Wings: Well, so much for "wait and see" and "She's young yet." After "Revelations" Daughter Cooper has firmly and passionately decided that Angel and Buffy belong together. :-)

Actually, the whole Buffy watch with Daughter Cooper is generating some interesting conversations with her. After Revelations we started talking about Angel and got into a discussion about morality and the nature of good and evil, and whether or not Angel really deserved happiness or not.

She's very observant and thoughtful, and she brought up a good point. She believes Angel isn't really subject to the Gypsy curse anymore. Her thought process is this: First, the Gypsy curse gave Angel his soul. Then he lost it again (his soul I mean) with Buffy. THEN, Willow re-souled him with her spell. Daughter Cooper reasoned that since Willow re-souled Angel, he isn't subject to the Gypsy Curse any more. I really didn't have an answer for that one. It's a pretty good theory.

Then we watched Band Candy, which is one of my favorites and was well, interesting, to say the least to watch with DC. :-)

Lostinamerica: The meeting went OK. Better than I thought. My mom got a little hostile towards the end but we all expected that and other than that it went pretty smooth. Dad was alot more receptive to the idea of getting some outside help than Mom. But we convinced her (sort of) that the folks from the hospital were all just trying to help and make things easier for them. The doc and the social worker there were fantastic. They really do know how to conduct these things and they both had a TON of info about programs and services that are available to help. Especially the social worker. There's so many programs and things that are out there that you'd never find yourself, or that you'd never know you were eligible for. She was a huge help. Mom and dad are sitll at home for now but we're all monitoring the situation. Social worker thinks they will need Assisted Living soon.

And honestly, a Dallas convention? Visting family? Yeah. Like we're all buying THAT story.

Chris Marlowe: You got something for all that work right? Like a tshirt? Free corn dogs and ice cream?

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Mon Jul 15 13:33:33 2019
Trivia Girl
Columbia, launched April 12, 1981

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Jul 15 12:40:07 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Spaaaaaaaaaace!
Question: What was the very first
Space Shuttle?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Jul 15 12:32:30 2019
Today Monday, July 15th
2019 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!

Dead Still Pretty (DSP)
Kiba Rika
Robin_the Snowshoe Hare

Happy Birthday from the Bronze,
to Dead Still Pretty (DSP),
Kiba Rika, redruM
Robin_the Snowshoe Hare

Niska: Mr. Reynolds? You died,
Mr. Reynolds. Mal: Seemed like
the thing to do.
'War Stories''

to be added to the birthday list,
please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 15 12:19:12 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 15 04:21:01 2019
The other night watched Goodbye Iowa (4th season). A few quick

- Buffy's sushi pajamas

- When Giles reaches for something, there's a quick glimpse of the tattoo,
"Mark of Eyghon" on the inside of his upper arm (From Dark Age).

- Buffy, Willow, and Anya watching the cartoon, "Roadrunner"...

~That wouldn't happen

~That's why it's a cartoon and not a documentary

- Kudos to Mark Blucas for his portrayal of Riley experiencing both deep
denial and withdrawals from the drug he'd been unknowingly ingesting
courtesy of Professor Walsh.

- In the second to the last scene, Buffy's describing to the others how
Riley had lost all anchors of belief and now had nothing to hold onto


Last scene of Riley lying on a hospital bed clutching Buffy's red scarf that
she had used to tend to a wound.

This is not one of those episodes that gets listed in a top ten list, but it
well carries along the serial story that BTVS had become after second


^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 15 02:59:42 2019
Christopher Marlowe - Neat!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 15 02:47:16 2019
White wings

Oh yes!. My favorite part was
hearing a friend sing some popular
standard 'High Hopes'
as part of a piano bar-like

^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 15 00:57:10 2019
Happy Birthday Angelusz, BuffyisdaBomb, Chris Golden, Chrisa, WB Watcher, Rainbow Connection, and Zygy! and/or Dead Still Pretty(DSP), Kiba Rika, redruM, and RobinTSH!

I'm not sure if prior years are off or someone is still recovering from numerous days of festival prep and management. *g*

Christopher Marlowe - I'm glad you survived. I hope you were able to enjoy things even if you were managing them.

lostinamerica - Oh, yes, clearly. Unquestionably.

Well, Barry seems to have kind of fizzled into an enormous water event. Freaky that almost all of the rain went way to the right of the center of it. The raised houses are proving their worth, but one wonders how much you can raise them. But it's an El Nino year, that has been unusually El Ninoish in terms of rain. Not that Texas has much to complain about but the Mississippi basin has been a problem.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Jul 15 00:12:17 2019
Today Sunday, July 14th 2019 C.E.

We have SEVEN (7) Birthdays!

Chris Golden
WB Watcher
Rainbow Connection: son of Lunacy & Petrona

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Angelusz, BuffyIsDaBomb, Chris Golden
Chrisa, WB Watcher, Rainbow Connection: son of Lunacy & Petrona, Zygy

We're deep in space, corner of No and Where. Mal, 'Objects In Space''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 15 00:02:17 2019
finally free at last from the

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Jul 14 13:11:05 2019
Good morning beta! I

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sun Jul 14 12:10:14 2019
white wings--What can I say, I'm just a soccer mom traveling around the
country searching for weak spots visiting my children ;)

Seriously, though, forget the beautiful spy, the soccer mom would be a much more
successful cover. One book on our book club list is Madame Fourcade's Secret
about a young mother who led a French Resistance group during WWII.

^ v
white wings says:
(Sun Jul 14 04:26:01 2019
Having investigated the Birthday Gnomette's postings in past years, I feel safe in saying:

Happy Birthday, Christopher Marlowe, Hollyn, LadyMuck, Spikara, and Zophie!

Hey, Christopher Marlowe, you're a birthday girl? At least you were on this day in past years, so I'm guessing you are today! I hope it was a good one, and you took some time to celebrate, with or without the festival!

And it also seems to be the Beta's birthday. Kind of warms the cockles of my heart to know it's still with us!

lostinamerica - The whole point of staying in a convention hotel is that you don't have to leave it to wander around in a strange city unless you want to. At least that was always my reasoning. Now in years past, a convention in San Francisco with Chinese co-workers made visiting Chinatown an absolute necessity, and one in Orlando made trips to Epcot de rigueur, but Dallas? Not so much. *g*

Some people like to live on the road. I would find that much traveling unsettling, and it clearly wasn't totally pleasing to you. But hey, child getting married! Youngest in grad school (with a finite time left in school)! The travel might have been tiring, but the events sound very promising.
Also good cover stories.

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sat Jul 13 22:17:26 2019
white wings--I went to Dallas for a convention so I wasn't too far away,
but I didn't leave the hotel except for the day I arrived because we needed
dinner :( The next weekend I was off to Kansas City to help my oldest daughter
find a wedding dress--one of the kids is finally getting married, so much to
plan! Then I just got back from Chattanooga for my husband's work thing, I only
went so we could see our youngest in grad school, he just started the summer
session :)

I'm ready to retire my carry-on bag :D

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 13 12:41:35 2019
Good morning beta..

white wings That isn't the
half of it!

All Day and all evening today as

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 13 04:43:03 2019
lostinamerica - How have you been? Any good cover stories to tell?

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sat Jul 13 03:23:15 2019
ShadowQuest--How the hell are you? Where've you been, whatcha' been

Welcome back :)

Agent Cooper--How'd the meeting go about your parents? I've been. . .away.

Boris, your cover is blown, he KNOWS! Sloppy, sloppy, tsk, Russians *sigh*

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 13 03:05:03 2019
Happy Birthday GothicAvenger, Huniebzz, ImTethered, Karrde, LuLu, Rachael, Seska, Slayer #2, and terri!

Agent Cooper - We'll just have to see. She's young yet. Shipping is very personal, and a lot of people moved on. Not everyone, though. It's all good. ;-) Do you see black squirrels? There used to be a thing with them.

wolfguard - Amazon is like the Room of Requirements. Now it delivers a broad spectrum of services. ;-)

Christopher Marlowe - All day, and now all evening? I'm afraid to think what your weekend will be like. *g*

Fortunately I'm well off to the side of Barry, but it's like watching a slow motion train wreck. At least the coverage is not political.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 13 01:04:40 2019
I am home...but just getting a
second wind for the events tonight!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 12 18:10:32 2019
From BBC online, a look-back on a classic movie. It's working title, "Boy
meets Girl".


^ v
wolfguar says:
(Fri Jul 12 17:48:07 2019
White Wings,

Thank you :)

Agent Cooper,

The Black Helicopters are just used to distract you. The real work is now
done with select Amazon Primer delivery people (and perhaps this is one
reason Amazon is pushing drone deliveries *g*).

"We are not scanning all those books to be read by people. We are scanning
them to be read by AI."

- a Google tech

"If you're completely confused, you understand it perfectly."

- Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Jul 12 14:13:07 2019
Wolfguard: Did you get that cybug from Lostinamerica? I'm guessing the answer is yes. And the black helicopter that followed me to whup this morning is not influencing my guess in any way...

Chris Marlowe: C'mon! Festivals are FUN! Are there rides and stuff?

White Wings: Yeah, I think Daughter Cooper is becoming a bit of an Angel/Buffy 'shipper. We'll see how that develops as we get further into the show.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Jul 12 13:19:59 2019
Today Friday, July 12th 2019 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to GothicAvenger, Huniebzz, ImTethered
Karrde, LuLu, Rachael, Seska, Slayer#2, terri

don't fancy spending the next month trying to get librarian out of the carpet.
Spike, 'Becoming (2)'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
white wings says:
(Fri Jul 12 05:16:25 2019
Christopher Marlowe - I hope the festival was festive!

^ v
white wings says:
(Fri Jul 12 03:09:08 2019
Happy Birthday BatCat. LittleHen, newtlette, shadowsong, Shiraz-Petra, and Squirrel !

Agent Cooper - B&B. Awwww. I had the same reaction as Daughter Cooper. Maybe not actual tears, but after the horror of waiting for months to learn how sending Angel to hell was going to be resolved, it was an enormous relief. Made my little shipper's heart go all pittypat. *sniff* I still love that scene.

wolfguard - As I remember the story, the Buffy people thought that Lindsay Crouse had a contractual obligation elsewhere, so they killed Professor Walsh. Then it transpired that she had not, and didn't know why they thought that, and they brought back Zombie Walsh. Since it ought to be easy to clarify a thing like that by one phone call, I suspect something more sinister, like Lindsay Crouse (or her agent) was hoping to land some other job that didn't materialize and Joss was trying to accommodate her. Maybe people just got insanely busy with trying to run two shows and something got lost.

I remember AngleMan and Dr. Angleman, and of course Polgara.

(Channeling lostinamerica? *g*)

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 11 23:26:54 2019
Agent Cooper I forgot to do
the trivia for today!

I am helping run a festival, what
time I want to spend here I will
have to spend out there.

It is much nicer in here. *g*

^ v
white wing says:
(Thu Jul 11 20:20:31 2019

At whup. On phone. Too small.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 11 18:48:44 2019
.It is especially creepy when people are talking behind your back.
Did you guys hear about Agent Cooper? Let me just repeat what I've
heard him whispering to himself ...

All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Cooper a dull boy...

How do I know this? Recall the 'bug' that Mayor Wilkins had delivered to him
in Choices? I have an updated cybug version with sensors, etc. that
was drone delivered to his stomping grounds. Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep...
compliments to Buffalo Springfield.



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 11 18:38:54 2019
Hello? Anybody here? Wow this place is creepy when it's empty like this.

I mean, yeah, sometimes it's pretty creepy when it's NOT empty. :-P But this is worse...

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 11 13:20:27 2019

Heh. Buggy. :-)

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Jul 11 13:13:24 2019
Watched Beauty and the Beasts with Daughter Cooper. She actually got teary eyed when Angel fell to his knees and hugged Buggy at the end. It was cute. :-)

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Jul 11 11:59:29 2019
Today Thursday, Jun 11th 2019 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to BatCat, LittleHen, newtlette, shadowsong
Shiraz-Petra, Squirrel

Why couldn't you be dealing drugs like normal people? Snyder, 'Choices'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 11 11:52:12 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 11 06:10:03 2019
Just watched The I in Team. Much to mull over. *g*

- Buffy's service with the Initiative lasted one episode. Should it have been

- I recall at the time there was talk that the writers had not originally
planned to kill off Professor Walsh or not so soon, but something came up.
Does anyone remember anything about this turn of events?

- Note: The writers named one character, Dr. Angleman, after a bronzer,
AngleMan. They also name a demon species after Polgara. *g*


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 11 03:39:10 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

As I know the story, Perot had been working as an IBM salesman when he got the
idea that there was a market for setting up and running a company's IT
systems. He proposed it to IBM management, but they didn't care for it. Perot
quit, packed up his family and moved to Texas where he founded EDS (Electronic
Data Systems).


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 11 02:26:25 2019
wolfguard You asked what I
thought Trump, Lee and Iaccoca.

Iaccoca seems to have been the
most sensible one, he made asking
bailout actually work.

Ross Perot was a bit more
offbeat, although I do not know
of his business acumen, he seemed
more 'sane' than Trump.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 11 02:18:09 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: In which episode did the
character known as Whistler first

Answer: Becoming, because i am a

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 11 01:19:14 2019
Edited: Thu Jul 11 01:20:45 2019
Agent Cooper,

I was told Pelosi said of the ~radical~ side of her party, ~ You only have
four votes (four legislators who so identified). For speculation sake, say
there is a large number of Democrats/Progressives who are drawn to and/or
are the audience of candidates such as Sanders and Warren.1 And
for speculation, I will accept the GOP has shed a number of traditional
positions to follow behind Trump.2 So folks who held more
traditional Democratic and Republican beliefs are left out. What might they
do? Perhaps regroup as the original parties, perhaps under a new name? Or
perhaps the extreme folks have to create new parties?3 Or perhaps
the moderates of both parties join up with real *g* independents and form a
new party?

An aside, many millennials appear to be comfortable with socialism or
socialist policies. One commentator blames it on those who called Obama a
socialist. Since many millennials liked Obama they reasoned if he was a
socialist, then socialism couldn't be that bad. *g*

1 Warren was a Republican into her early forties.

2 Primarily trade and Russia.

3 Democratic Socialists Party and America First Party.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 11 00:06:21 2019
almost, but not quite...home!

^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 10 23:43:21 2019
Happy Birthday HaloGirl, Krystaa, SLaYeR, and That girl!

Christopher Marlowe - We all have to find the balance between pleasure and labor in crafts. *g* Were you making the shirts to sell, or just to learn how to do it?

Agent Cooper - Yeah. I didn't like the last one either. I refused to listen to him (just as I didn't listen to certain of his predecessors), and I certainly don't begrudge others the right to not listen to ones they don't like. I don't think I ever said that presidents that I didn't like didn't have a right to speak or do the things that presidents do. It's that kind of thing that annoys me.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Jul 10 19:28:36 2019
Wolfguard: Still, Ross was never going to win. No third party was ever going to win back then. The two party system has had an absolute lock on the government for a long, long time.

IN the present time though, I think it could happen. Heck, it kind of already did if you look at the way the things are breaking for the GOP right now since 2016.

Of course, instead of a direct challenge from a third party, a third party type changed one of the parties from within. And this is happening on both sides now. The GOP of today is not the GOP from 20 years ago. And neither are the Dems. They are going through their own transformation as well.

Will there be an actual split up, where folks break away from the two major parties in a big way and we see 3 or four viable, electable parties that are forced to create coalitions ala european parliamentary systems? Who knows?

But I think it's one way things could play out in the near future.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 10 18:00:56 2019
Agent Cooper,

What I liked about that scene was before jumping out of the car to chase
Walsh, Giles had just listed the reasons why he could not or would not
succumb to demonic urges. So, was Giles succumbing to those demonic urges or
just good old human urges? *g*

A question: How did Ethan learn the number "314"? If he got it hearsay from
the local mystics, vampires, or demons then how did they get it? Loose-lips?
A mole in the Initiative? *g*

A few notes about Perot ...

1) As an entrepreneur and businessman, Perot was in a league way above
President Trump.

2) Perot graduated from Annapolis and served in the Navy.

3) I believe he was an Eagle Scout

4) As I recall, he won ~19% of the vote (popular?) in 1992.

5) He got his employees out of Iran after the 1979 revolution. There was a
book about it (~On the Wings of Eagles?) and perhaps a television movie?

I don't know how much the book or movie reflected the reality, but here's a
link to one article on it from ~ 1980 (Washington Post).


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Jul 10 18:00:22 2019
Trivia Girl: Becoming, but I thought it was part two.

"Yknow, raiding an Englishmans fridge is like dating a nun. Youre never going to get the good stuff."

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Wed Jul 10 15:55:16 2019
Trivia Girl
Buffy - "Becoming, Part I"

Can't find a reference to him on Angel.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Jul 10 15:18:16 2019
Agent Cooper: Shadowquest! You're not a stranger. Welcome back!

Now let's talk about this bar tab..

Wolfguard: RE Trivia: Geez. Of course it was that easy. Anybody with sense would not even have to watch one ep of Buffy to guess THAT. In summary: I AM DUMB!

Wolfguard II Electric Bugaloo: RE New Man: One of my top favorite eps! Yes! Watching Demon/Giles chase Maggie Walsh down the street = total awesomeness!

White Wings: Well, you know, the current prez isn't everybody's cup of tea. I get it. I didn't like the last guy too much and wouldn't have wanted to watch him do a parade either. Politics. Meh. Whatevs.

Christopher Marlowe: You know, I think I voted for Ross? It's really odd to me that I don't remember. But I'm pretty sure I did. Somebody said on another forum I visit that Perot was Trump before Trump was cool. Meaning that Ross was ahead of his time, running as a populist alternative to the two major parties in an era when such a candidate could not hope to win. Interesting how the political landscape has changed since then. Nowadays populism is all the rage on both sides.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 10 12:05:57 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: In which episode did the character known as Whistler first appear?

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 10 11:45:56 2019
ShadowQuest There are still
a few hardy souls, there are
probably more bronzers posting on
facebook bronze group, than on the
beta these days.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Jul 10 11:21:45 2019
Today Wednesday, July 10th 2019 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!

That girl

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to HaloGirl, Krystaa, SlaYeR, That girl

Willow: Were there dolphins? Tara: Yes. Many dolphins at the pound. Willow: Was there a camel? Tara: There was the front of a camel. A half-camel. 'No Place Like Home'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 10 11:16:06 2019
Good morning beta!

white wings We first
soaked the shirts in some
solution that was supposed to
make them easier to dye. Then we
tied them up in rubber bands and
soaked various sections in
different colors. Pretty labor-
intensive, not sure I would want
to do this on a regular basis.

^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 10 08:47:50 2019
ShadowQuest - *points to candle in the window* Still here for the weary wanderer, if
restfully quiet and dim this time of L.O.S.E.R.S. How have you been?

wolfguard - There were huge parades with thousands of men, tanks, and missiles in the
past, in our lifetimes. I do not remember ever hearing that they were evil or cruel to the participants
or somehow a sign of weakness. I dont recall any carping at all. The event is not the problem.

I read tonight that the estimated cost was 1.2 million. The article went on to say that Fleet Week in
NYC cost 2.5 million in port charges of various kinds and 36 million for the flyovers. Why are we
spending that money? Why not let the sailors and airmen spend the time at home? Why display our
ships that way? Are we threatening the rest of the world? Could it be that people just enjoy it (or
NYC wants the money)? Maybe Trump should decide to give a speech and De Blasio will declare
the whole event unwelcome. *g*

In our local parade we had Vietnam veterans, maybe some national guardsmen, some vehicles that
certainly had been with the national guard and might still be, and artillery. The Lakeway Artillery, that
is. A real (if small) ceremonial canon hauled behind a festive golf cart. All were applauded, and it
was honest applause - the vets werent even tossing candy. *g*. Some years we have a flyover, but
not this year. We had an astronaut. But weve had WWII planes, biplanes, and one year even real
live modern(ish) jets.

You heard about the man in Houston who had a Sherman tank, didnt you? A rather scrappy and
wealthy lawyer in the poshest part of town bought a working Sherman tank (minus the gun) about
two years ago. Before moving it to his ranch he parked it temporarily in front of his house. His HOA
had fits. He was violating ... something. It would be removed. It was an attractive nuisance. It
caused traffic (it sure did). Theyd do things. He just grinned, and informed them that their bylaws
did not cover tanks, and it was legal. As he told the newsmen, they were just unhappy, but until he
decided to move it there wasnt much anyone could do. Everyone who heard about it, including my
Houston family, took care to drive down Memorial Avenue to admire it and annoy an officious HOA.
Theres no lesson in the anecdote, I just remembered it while thinking of tanks.

ETA: sorry about the lack of apostrophes. My bad, iPad.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 10 07:44:34 2019
Edited: Wed Jul 10 07:44:52 2019
Something's happening in the dark world.
Something's harming demons and it's not the Slayer.
Something called 314
The kind of scared that turns to angry
We're a couple of old mystics
Enjoy the night.
Were still a couple of scorers.
The night is still our time.
Time of magick

I have a soul. I have a conscience. I am a human being. Oh! Stop the car.

(Jumps out to chase Maggie Walsh down the street.)

From A New Man


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 10 06:59:20 2019

These nights the Bronze functions more like an old bulletin board site. Post
and stop back by in a few hours....


^ v
ShadowQuest says:
(Wed Jul 10 06:44:51 2019
A stranger approaches the mic and taps it.

Is this thing on?

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 10 06:07:57 2019
Edited: Wed Jul 10 06:13:08 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

How do you see their differences?

White Wings,

It wasn't till the Korean War that the US kept a large, standing military
force. Three times we expanded the military dramatically - the Civil War,
WWI, and WWII. As I recall, we had 12 million servicemen at the end of WWII
and we quickly demobilized the vast majority of them. The North Koreans
invasion of South Korea in June 1950 caught us out. We realized a Cold
War/Containment demanded a large standing military force and so we built one
and held onto it after the USSR ended.1So ...

From the end of the Revolution until ~1941 there weren't many soldiers
available to parade on 150-odd 4th of July celebrations.2 I
imagine the soldiers that did march were veterans and/or state militia. Some
veterans, a flag guard, a fly-over - this would work well enough for me. I'd
really need to take time reflecting on exactly on the purpose of parades.
They are a spectacle, so who are the spectators - who is the audience. What
is the parade suppose to evoke in the spectators?

The USSR, PRC, and North Korea certainly saw other countries as spectators
and the participating military units and displays were meant to be warnings.

1 I recall hearing somewhere that on the eve of WII the US Army
consisted of around 150,000 men.

2 Possibly more if counting from 1776. I began the count in 1788,
the year the Constitution was ratified and ended it around 1941.


^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 10 03:12:32 2019
Happy Birthday Ali, Carita, Christabelle, Lady Sawall, Sidhe, Sluffy Bummers, and TMorel's Mom!

Christopher Marlowe - Tie dyeing? That sounds very interesting. Were you using a cauldron or a sink? Or can it be done in a washing machine? I am afeared to work with dye. I, my house, and any piece of clothing adjacent would likely come out in strange colors. You are brave! Did it work?

Agent Cooper - I watched the July 4 thing later, once I'd shoveled family out the door. I wanted to see the stuff that had everyone gnashing their fangs. I notice 'everyone' has been really quiet about that since then. I was glad I watched. If they could stand in that rain to give a performance, I could at least show the flag by enjoying it from my recliner. The timing of the speech and the flyovers was impressive. But as you said, it did seem like a rather innocent celebration.

wolfguard - Military bands are present in lots of celebrations. They are always in the Washington annual musical that precedes the firework. If the Rose Bowl can have a flyover by a B2 bomber, why can't the President and Washington have one on Independence Day? Is there not some tiny percentage of the military that is stationed too far home to get away for one day to be with their of families, or who actually are scheduled to be working that day? Might some of those not be available? Is it possible that there are soldiers who would actually enjoy being in a parade, and having their families watch and cheer them on? I can't personally imagine being in the parade or the crowd, with so many people, and so much walking far from shade and water and restrooms, but I don't see the participants being herded by bayonets. Think of Christopher Marlowe hi! volunteering at booths!

Your associations are certainly yours to form and hold, and Red Square does leave a bad taste in my mouth too, but when I see groups of US military, I see people who keep me from being forced to attend things like Red Square on May Day, or praising the Dear Leader. But what do I know? Macron may be an evil dictator threatening France with the Bastille Day parade, and heaven knows Queen Elizabeth must be some kind of wicked witch to force her people to celebrate her birthday by trooping of the colors instead of observing the bank holiday at home. And her RAF get to have colored contrails in flyovers. Ours didn't. *sulk* But perhaps the miserable weather would have made it less spectacular.

Comma - We are never told what might have been. I didn't think Perot was one of the "in" crowd nationally, but word around the State was that he sure knew how to pick up a phone and get unfavorable evaluations of his bids set aside. But it was said very privately.

And with that I retire, because I have to apply Benadryl cream to some areas where I should have applied insect repellent.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 10 03:03:27 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What does Joyce's group
MOO stand for?
Answer: Mothers Opposed to the Occult

Triva master: wolfguard and AGent Cooper!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 10 02:10:36 2019

Lee Iacocca passed away as well.
Ttunp, perot and lee...three
different kinds of businessmen

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 9 23:44:20 2019
Yet another busy night...tie dyeing
last night and now more arty stuff.

Agent cooper

Odd to think of perot...he could
have been president!

^ v
Comma says:
(Tue Jul 9 21:50:07 2019
Ross Perot has died. If not for Mr. Perot Bill Clinton may never had been elected President. One really does not know how many Perot voters would have voted for Bush senior or Bob Dole.


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 9 18:25:00 2019
Agent Cooper,

Mothers Opposed to the Occult.



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 9 17:53:42 2019
Where is Notsoshygirl? I want to know what O stands for!

^ v
Carita says:
(Tue Jul 9 14:58:20 2019
Thank you for my birthday Happies
❤ 😘

^ v
Carita says:
(Tue Jul 9 14:52:40 2019
Thank you for my birthday Happies
❤ 😘

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 9 14:50:48 2019
Trivia Girl: Mothers O- something about the Occult. What does that first O stand for?? Can't remember. O something. Occupied with? Only worried about?

White Wings: I actually watched the fourth of July thing. It was nice. Just a standard July 4 speech giving some props to great Americans, some of which were invited and were at the ceremony. They had the guy who cured leukemia and some military heroes there, who got some nice recognition. As did the branches of the military. Some planes flew over. You know. Nothing scary. Not sure what the fuss was about. Actually, I suspect what the fuss was about but whatevs. To each their own. :-)

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 9 12:44:59 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What does Joyce's group
MOO stand for?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Jul 9 12:23:11 2019
Today Tuesday, July 9th 2019 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!

Lady Sawall
Sluffy Bummers

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Ali, Carita, Christabelle, Lady Sawall, Sidhe, Sluffy Bummers,

You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats, press one or say 'goats.' To sacrifice a loved one or pet, press the pound key. Phone Menu Voice, 'Conviction (1)'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 9 12:12:00 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 9 05:35:12 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

I didn't make a lot of effort to follow the news on the 4th of July parade in
WDC. I understood President Trump wanted an emphasis on the military? What's
normally done in such parades? Military bands? Flags? Fancy drill teams?

I'd not vote for large formations or weapon displays, because I associate that
with the USSR and now Russia's parades (see link below). I also believe as
many service folks as possible should have the 4th off to be with their

As I understood your post, you not as irritated with this parade as you
originally were? If true, how so?


^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Jul 9 02:24:20 2019
Happy Birthday demonica1313, Kara, and Knowitall!

Christopher Marlowe - I imagine that Washington would really prefer that no one rain on any activity there, at least not until they dry out. *g*

Seriously, I loved that the city was going all "De money, de roads, aiiiieee!" over the parade, and Trump went "De plane, de plane!" Or in terms somewhat closer to this community, "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me-eeee!" *sniff* This country was born in war, and the fireworks are an homage to those who withstood a terrible barrage. That military equipment belongs to me, and you, and wolfguard, and Agent Cooper, and all of us, and only in an equal measure to Trump, and I don't mind seeing what we've been paying for all our working lives, and our parents paid for before us. But that's just me. ;-)

I was a little less enthusiastic about the fireworks Mother Nature set off here this afternoon, although I really shouldn't throw off on an inch of rain in July. It looks like you are getting a little relief from the heat, although the wind map still shows south winds flowing up from the Gulf over Texas and straight up towards you. I almost feel that I should apologize for that. *g*

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 8 23:48:09 2019

I am seriously reconsidering my
attitude reagrding trumps parade..i
may not be as willing to rain as
hard on it as before. *g*

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Jul 8 18:02:11 2019
Trivia Girl,

Utah - Colorado

Arizona - New Mexico

(It's a map!)

More for brownie points ...



^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Mon Jul 8 14:57:08 2019
Trivia Girl
Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Jul 8 13:27:42 2019
Trivia Girl: Washington, California, Florida and Maine

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Jul 8 12:44:53 2019
Sunnydale's Trivia Pursuits

Category: Geography
Question: What 4 states make up the
4 corners?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Jul 8 12:17:30 2019
Today Monday, July 8th 2019 C.E.

We have THREE (3) Birthdays!


Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to demonica1313, Kara, Knowitall

Mal: Ready? Zoe: Always. 'Serenity''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 8 12:10:18 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Jul 8 02:55:38 2019
Happy Birthday Judas, Michael7770, murphcat, Xana, and xandersfan!

wolfguard - I was always in the position of the watchee, not the watcher, when involved in organized activities such as camps. I can't say that I appreciated them as much as I should have. Perhaps going rowing in a lake so polluted that we weren't allowed contact with the water, or having a typhoon go through camp and forcing us to be pulled into the one concrete building (except for the other one where the hole-in-the-ground style toilets were) colored my consciousness. My brother seemed to enjoy his scout outing more, since they got to climb Mt. Fuji and almost made it to the top when the typhoon blew over and they ran down the mountain when the eye came over.

After all these years, you've made me realize that I never thought a great deal about how the other half of the activities coped, and I really should have. Still self-centered. *g*

Around these parts, people have to pay attention to dam releases. Just about any kind of recreational water activities depend on them if there has been too much or too little water. But the various river authorities have websites with a lot of information on them, except for the hydroelectric flows. That is regarded as some kind of competitive information.

Headache. Not sure why. Time to go seek remedies.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Jul 8 01:56:43 2019
Today Sunday July 7th th 2019 C.E.

We have SIX (6) Birthdays!

Robia La Morte as Jenny Calendar

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Judas, Michael7770, murphcat, Robia La Morte as Jenny Calendar, Xana, xandersfan,

You know, I've saved lives. Dozens. Maybe hundreds. I reattached a girl's leg. Her whole leg. She named her hamster after me. I got a hamster. He drops a box of money, he gets a town. Simon, 'Jaynestown'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Jul 8 01:34:57 2019
Just finished watching Stranger
Things...quite exciting!

^ v
white wings says:
(Sun Jul 7 22:31:17 2019
Good afternoon, Christopher Marlowe!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Jul 7 15:19:13 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 7 08:19:46 2019
What's this? Sitting around watching telly while there's evil still a
foot. Not very productive of you. I say, we go out there and kick a little
demon arse. What? Can't go without your Buffy? Is that it? Too chicken? Let's
find her. She is the Chosen One after all. Come on! Vampires! Errrr - nasty.
Let's annihilate them for justice and for the safety of puppies and Christmas,
alright? Let's fight that evil. Let's kill something!


Oh, come on.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 7 07:13:21 2019
Hey. Bulletin. I'm not the only one who has been a little less than honest

I thought a professional demon hunter like yourself would have figured it
out by now - I'm the Slayer.

Riley deadpan face.

(try again)
Chosen One

From Doomed


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sun Jul 7 05:08:53 2019
White Wings,

The Program office often got tasked with extracurricular duties and the
"Paddlers" were my flying squad. *g* The biggest recurring task was
bringing in and taking out all the campers' luggage, usually from airports
all the way to the cabin porches. The Camp ran two sessions each with
handling 500-600 campers. A lot of luggage. The Paddlers took care of this
along with the help of a few other mad specialists and perhaps some off-duty
kitchen staff.

There were usually only three or four them. One would teach basic kayaking
and canoeing on the lakes and the other two or three would be running white-
water trips out-of-camp. This was probably the single most dangerous
activity offered by the Camp and these guys were masters. The head master
paddler for most of my years had come up through the paddling program as a
camper. He joined the staff as an assistant instructor and over several
seasons moved up up to running the program. On his first outing as 'Head
Master Paddler' he was taking a group of half-dozen canoes down This-or-That
River. He was in a C-1 canoe and two other instructors were in kayaks.

He had positioned himself in the middle of the column1 and was
there when he observed the lead canoe capsized. The two kids got separated
from the boat and when the instructor in the chase kayak approached them he
got capsized. By this time the empty canoe had got in and spit out of a
hydraulic and it looked like the two kids and the instructor were soon to
join it. What did the new Master Paddler do?

He first turned and and stopped the other canoes and kayak and got them
heading towards the river bank, then he pivoted around and headed to the
ones in the river. But in the time he had taken the instructor and two kids
had managed to get themselves to the river bank. Hail the River Gods!

He told me, "WG, I watched that water-filled canoe launch out of the
hydraulic like a missile and thought "Crap/Nothing I can do to help them
now/Got to help those I can behind me".

We also offered rock-climbing and ran it similarly to paddling: in-camp
basics followed by daily trips out of camp to the mountains. Rock-climbing
and Paddling were friendly rivals. They'd discussed which was more dangerous
and concluded paddling. In rock-climbing you usually couldn't get high
enough to hurt yourself without first obtaining some degree of skill.
2 A paddler could find herself in trouble with little warning.
Rivers' personalities change with the amount of water flowing through them
and this depended both on weather and dam releases.3 Stuff is
always falling in the water, getting trapped and changing the flow dynamics.
And then there's erosion.

1 There may be a technical term for a column or string of boats
going down a river, but I do not remember or know it. *g*

2 Unless a person is able to walk or drive up to the top of a
cliff and then try rappelling down. The ill-prepared can get in trouble
doing this.

3 As a kid, I just assumed rivers were always full and ran down
gravity so you could always go paddling. Nooo ... If an area has substantial
winter snow, then the spring melt creates the water feeding rivers. Without
snow-melt you're dependent on rainfall and dam releases. The latter was
often the factor which determined where the daily trip went paddling. 7AM
the paddlers would be in my office calling the regional dams asking if they
were releasing water and if so, how much? Afterwards they'd look at me and
say, "We're doing the Aqualine today, Section IV (fictional name).

Ah, brings back so many memories. One season the head of rock-climbing was
this very short young man with arms the size of others' thighs. He would
grasp inner roof beams with his fingers and precede to do pull-up's. People
called him the Smurf. *g*


^ v
white wings says:
(Sun Jul 7 03:18:43 2019
Happy Birthday Angela's Mom, Athena, Calliope, and Mystery13!

wolfguard - Fireworks and heat lightning from a building top sound neat, although it is nice to hear and smell the fireworks.

One year we tried the roof of a parking garage adjacent to the parking garage where fireworks being staged. The view was great. However we were promptly boxed in by a huge crowd of miscellaneous vehicles who had all had the same brilliant idea, including several pickups with groups sitting in the beds in lawn chairs with boom boxes. Your building sounds a lot more peaceful.

When I visited my grandparents in summer, back in the '50s, we would gather on a second story flat rooftop and watch the heat lightning. Recently the cousins of my generation gathered at the old house (which was a money pit) and the new owners were building additions on top of the old flat roofs. I couldn't help but feel a twinge that our old gathering area was being destroyed, and then I got a grip. Everyone has cable now (or the internet equivalent), and IMO no one in their right mind in San Antonio would have a flat roof. A style suitable for arid country is an invitation to leaks in a place with sea breezes and periodic heavy downpours and flash floods.

So the canoe/kayack specialists got the tail end of the stick (so to speak) in the parade that year. *g*

Heee! To your TED talk says the feeder at the public trough. ;-)

Christopher Marlowe - Betcha don't have 7.1 earthquakes in South Dakota. Just like those left coasters to upstage everyone. But then, they seldom have hurricanes or tornadoes. They have to make do with wildfires and earthquakes.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 6 21:59:25 2019
Link to videos of California earthquake. One is of a family's backyard
swimming pool. Surf's Up! *g*


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 6 20:08:20 2019
Edited: Sat Jul 6 20:09:11 2019
I was listening to a TED talk on cyber-attacks and defenses. One thing
the speaker said was ...

..."If we told you, we'd have to make you a government employee."




^ v
wolfguard says:
(Sat Jul 6 19:24:13 2019
White Wings,

I was the Camp's program coordinator. One of my jobs was managing the
specialists staff, the 60-odd people who taught skills, etc. (as opposed to
the councilors who lived with and 'managed' the kids. The specialists were in
the parade. I was on the sideline. *g*

Christopher Marlowe,

I had a chance to be on an office building rooftop. Given the way the building
was constructed, we could not see to the west, but we could see ~southeast to
the northeast. The Atlanta Metro area consist of two cities and numerous towns
and many of them had firework displays. We could not hear them, but could see
them. I counted 8 or 10 displays. There was also 'heat' lighting. *g* What
sort of fireworks are done in Rapid City?


^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Jul 6 18:03:48 2019
Today Saturday, July 6th 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Adam Busch as Warren Mears
Angela's Mom

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Adam Busch as Warren Mears
Angela's Mom, Athena, Calliope, Mystery13

Buffy: I was regrouping. Spike: You were about to be regrouped into separate piles.

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 6 14:25:44 2019
Good morning beta and stay safe

^ v
white wings says:
(Sat Jul 6 05:54:50 2019
7.1 in Ridgecrest, CA. a little while ago.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Jul 6 03:15:12 2019
wolfguard, Agent Cooper Did
anyone enjoy fireworks?

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 5 22:39:36 2019
Agent Cooper I had the day
off! but I wound up being occupied
with laundry and the new 'Stranger
Things' season!

^ v
white wings says:
(Fri Jul 5 21:20:04 2019
Happy Birthday angelic, alsvid, Looking for Oz, Lori, One and Only Me, and Professional Lurker!

wolfguard - You weren't part of the parade? Unfair. Our pooper scooper was part of the parade and cheered.

I saw on Animal Planet that in Japan it's a giant salamander that causes earthquakes.

Agent Cooper - It's not nice for you to have to work today. I'm sorry. I can't decide if the State gave us the day off to avoid having half the workforce calling in sick (which was how we were formally given the day after Thanksgiving), or because the teachers got a raise and other state workers didn't, or to sooth some other reason for discontent. *g*

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 5 18:20:11 2019
Agent Cooper,

Dragons cause earthquakes. If true, then what can the differences in
earthquakes between California and New York tell us about dragons?

More dragons in California than in New York?

Stronger (Weaker) dragons in California (New York)?

More hard-working (lazy) dragons in California (New York)?

Smarter working (duller working) dragons in California (New York)?

Better educated dragons in California than in New York? (Or perhaps it's the
other way? Perhaps earthquake work does not pay as well as other work?)

Dragons are attracted to hellmouths and there are more hellmouths in
California than in New York?

Perhaps other factors are in play?



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Jul 5 17:22:44 2019
You know, if I'm stuck at whup all day today, you should all have the decency to take a break from your day off and post here once in a while and keep me company. Just sayin'.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Jul 5 13:53:03 2019
I don't know if everybody has a dragon story. I just know that I have several. :-)

I also have several earthquake stories.

It's not generally well known but there is a pretty big and active faultline under the Adirondacks. The earth moves alot here but it's not usually enough to be noticeable without measuring equipment.

But there HAVE been three or four quite noticeable earthquakes here in Upstate NY since I've been alive. Having experienced those I can tell you it's an understatement to say it is quite unsettling (no pun intended) to feel the earth shake under your feet and the building you are in start to sway.

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Jul 5 13:23:56 2019
Today Friday, July 5th 2019 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

One and Only Me
Professional Lurker

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to angelic, alsvid, Lori, One and Only Me, Professional Lurker

ou're a bloody puppet! You're a wee little puppet man! Spike, 'Smile Time'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 5 13:13:27 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Jul 5 05:30:35 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

Don't taunt the Quake god. *g*

White Wings,

They weren't in the parade, they just swept behind it. *g*


^ v
white wings says:
(Fri Jul 5 04:32:16 2019
wolfguard - As for the italics, I debated responding with "Don't you know?", or "It seemed the thing to do at the time", but settled on a quick edit and "What italics?" *g*

Fortunately, horse manure is inoffensive. That's straight from the British Pony Club Manual (of some 40 years ago). I have shoveled my share, but never had to do it while parading. That would be harder. ;-)

Christopher Marlowe, wolfguard - I'm going to take a stand and say that earthquakes are bad. I was in a few small ones when I was in Tokyo as a 9-10 year old, and I didn't like it at all. Even with strong tornadoes, if you have a good enough shelter, there's something you can do. With earthquakes, it doesn't feel like there's much. Apparently the building codes for earthquakes help tremendously, but it the Big One hits, it may all be moot.

Fireworks were watched. I even got a little whiff of gunpowder from some nearby individual fireworks. Many happy children, and one black lab who was not at all concerned with the pops and crackles. Day is done.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Jul 5 01:47:05 2019
wolfguard I checked to see
if South Dakota had ever had
earthqakes: We had 3,

The first recorded earthquake in
South Dakota area was on October
9, 1872. It seemed to be centered
near Sioux City, IA with reports
of shaking in Yankton, SD. There
have been sever small quakes
reported over the years in South
Dakota, in fact on October 11,
1938 a tremor rattled dishes in
Sioux Falls.

On June 26, 1966, a magnitude 4.1
quake near Rapid City cracked a
patio and concrete steps in Rapid
City. In Keystone well water was
muddied and could not be used for
several hours. Tremor was felt
through out the Black Hills and
south to Pine Ridge.

4.4 - November 23, 1967
Southern South Dakota and
northern Nebraska was hit with a
magnitude 4.4 quake on November
23, 1967. In the Winner, Rosebud
and White River areas there were
reports of houses shaking and
dishes falling from shelves.

People in Gregory said furniture
shifted and some windows were
cracked. There were reports of
livestock stampeding through

The tremor was reported from
Chamberlain to Ainsworth,

5.1 - March 28, 1964
One of, if not the, biggest
earthquakes recorded in South
Dakota was a 5.1 magnitude on
March 28, 1964

The epicenter was near Merriman,
Nebraska, where dishes were
broken, stucco cracked and cracks
were seen in a nearby highway.

Quake damage in southwestern
South Dakota included a damaged
retaining wall in Deadwood,
cracked plaster in Interior and
Pine Ridge, and a glass container
broke in a market at Martin.
Several farms near Martin, SD
reported broken glass.

This quake was felt as far away
as Alzada, Montana.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 4 22:13:22 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

It's a probability. If the probability based on the history of earthquakes,
then she was saying in that 20% of the time similar earthquakes were followed
by larger earthquakes. Consider what's also left unsaid. but implied - 80% of
the time such an earthquake was not followed by a larger earthquake.

It's like a weather forecast. If the forecast says there's a 30% chance of
rain, it's saying that in the past conditions like the present have resulted
in rain 30% of the time (and conversely, 70% of the time did not *g*).

Note: I do not know if the historical record is a general one, for all known
earthquakes, or based on the historical record of earthquakes in southern


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 4 20:57:21 2019
wolfguard A larger
earthquake? Wow..I don't want to
be in California for that!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 4 18:39:54 2019
White Wings,

What's the italics?

For eight seasons I worked for a large summer camp. For one 4th July program
we had a parade. Around 10 or 12 horseback instructors rode to much acclaim.
My canoe/kayak staff took the rear with shovels and bags. *g*

Christopher Marlowe,

Last night I posted on the 1972 meteor. Follows a 20-second video of it and
another video speaking of a government conspiracy about the meteor. *g*

The 20-Second View

The Claim of a Conspiracy


Another big earthquake in Ridgecrest in southern California, magnitude 6.4
(note the Richter scale is a logarithmic. The magnitude increases 10 times
between each number. For instance, a 6.0 is 10 times more powerful than a
5.0 which is 10 times more powerful than a 4.0)

Seismologist Lucy Jones says the area will continue to shake for a while and
that there's a 20% chance of a larger earthquake in the next few days.


^ v
white wings says:
(Thu Jul 4 18:21:15 2019
Edited: Fri Jul 5 04:18:37 2019

Happy Fourth of July

Happy Birthday Arana, Suekib, Vamptress, and The USA!

wolfguard - And so we have celebrated. But we have tanks and planes now. John Adams couldn't have foreseen those (or lunar landings).

The parade is over. It was wonderfully overcast, without rain. We got candy, Mardi Gras beads, fans, and coupons, and waved a lot. My SIL got into a barter arrangement with the nearby kids for candy trades. The funniest thing in the parade was a "precision" drill team of older gentlemen in flag-themed shorts marching mostly in line with lightweight lawn chairs. They were holding them forward and clapping the legs together, and tapping the ground with them, all in fairly good order. There were some horsies followed by the pooper scooper golf cart. There was a thing that looked like a golf cart or an ATV with a roof, up on long downward sloping stalks ending with off-road wheels (but fancy wheel bases). I don't know what it was for, but it was mighty clean. Also one cart with a sign "Lakeway or Death". *g*

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 4 13:51:36 2019
Edited: Thu Jul 4 13:52:10 2019
"I am apt to believe that it [this day] will be celebrated by succeeding
generations, as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated
as the day of deliverance by solemn actions of devotion to God Almighty. It
ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns,
bells, bonfires, and illuminations from one end of this continent to the other
from this time forward forever more.

- John Adams

Happy 4th of July!


^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Jul 4 13:32:07 2019
Today Thursday, July 4th 2019 C.E.

Independence Day!

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!

Black Aria

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Black Aria, Dingo Baby, greeneyes, Sushi, willowLover101

Jayne: Anybody remember her comin' at me with a butcher's knife? Wash: Wacky fun.
'Objects In Space'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 4 13:24:01 2019
Good morning beta and Happy 4th!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 4 06:06:54 2019
White Wings,

Almost everyone has a dragon story to tell. *g*


^ v
white wings says:
(Thu Jul 4 03:18:54 2019
wolfguard - I had not heard that song. But it explains unicorns. Now do we have a story for dragons? *g*

Christopher Marlowe - We might have eaten them. Or vice versa. ;-)

I'm ready for the local parade tomorrow. Water in fridge. Off and sunblock ready. Hat has a shoestring chinstrap added in case of wind. Transport chair is ready to roll itself to the usual spot on the parade route. Very lightweight clothes selected. Then local parties, napping, family dinner, and fireworks.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Jul 4 02:48:40 2019
Christopher Marlowe

Perhaps a few seconds earlier or a few seconds later and the asteroid may
have missed the Earth. I've a photo from ~August 1972 of a very large meteor
shooting across the sky in broad daylight. It's taken from a pier in a lake
near the Teton (?) mountains. I'll look around the internet.

White Wings,

Do you recall this song?

"...Then Noah looked out through the driving rain
Them unicorns was hiding, playing silly games
Kicking and splashing while the rain was pouring
Oh, them silly unicorns...

...Noah cried, "close the doors 'cause the rain is pourin'
And we just can't wait for no unicorns"

The ark started movin', it drifted with the tide
Them unicorns looked up from the rock and they cried
And the waters came down and sort of floated them away
And that's why you'll never see a unicorn, to this very day..."

~ The Unicorns ~ by the "Irish Rovers" c.1968


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Jul 4 00:25:01 2019
[v]wolfguard, white wings[/b] If it
wasn't for that pesky event, the
dinosaurs may still have been
around today!

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 3 23:25:16 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What date did the first
episode of Angel air?

Answer: What NotsoShyGirl said. I
don't wanna think about how long it
has been. *g*

^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 3 22:11:06 2019
Happy Birthday Brandi the Slayer, Briel, Kimmie Kat, NancyE, NuBelle, Rusty, Spike's Girl, and Writer!

wolfguard - Re: dinosaurs - That's an example of evolution in action. *g*

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 3 18:13:19 2019

My reference to Brun's Incident at Sakhalin comes from 25 years ago and
my references to Andropov, Project RYAN, and ABLE ARCHER 83 come from 35 years
ago. *g*


^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Wed Jul 3 14:38:46 2019
Trivia Girl
October 5, 1999

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Wed Jul 3 14:16:52 2019
wolfguard That w as over 30 years ago, good grief.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Jul 3 12:43:22 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: What date did the first episode of Angel air?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Jul 3 12:23:16 2019
Today Wednesday, July 3rd 2019 C.E.

We hav EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Brandi the Slayer
Kimmie Kat

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Brandi the Slayer, Briel, Kimmie Kat
NancyE NuBelle, Rusty, Spikes Girl, Writer,

You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats, press one or say 'goats.' To sacrifice a loved one or pet, press the pound key. Phone Menu Voice, 'Conviction (1)'

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 3 12:12:57 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 3 06:50:06 2019

Just saw a cartoon. It shows two dinosaurs on a small islet. It's raining as
they look out to sea at a large, wood boat floating away. One dinosaur says to
the other, "Oh crap! Was that today?"



^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Jul 3 03:18:09 2019
Happy Birthday Bow, DZRAY, Feena's Mum, Friend or Foe, Joshua, lainey2, shadoed, and Willow's Snake!

There was a cool south breeze out. That is odd in summer. There were clouds, but no serious looking storms.

No matter. I'm hiding from politics, heat, work, family, housework, cooking, and Life in general. Tomorrow I'll have to sally forth to meet some of them, but for tonight I'm sucking my thumb.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 3 02:19:52 2019
wolfguard I like your
sound reasoning. *G*

I did not watch the debates, so
the only names that pop up on my
radar ones that make the news:
Warren, Buttigig and Harris. At
this point, as long as the Dem
candidate had a good temperment
and plays well with others,
he/she has my vote and well as a
pat on the head.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 3 01:25:39 2019
Edited: Wed Jul 3 01:32:17 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

I hold the following two political beliefs ...

1) Power should be decentralized.

2) Models are useful, but if people become emotionally attached to a
model(s) then the model can become dangerous.

I have a general belief that individuals should be allowed to do what they
want so long as it doesn't harm other individuals. The only way this works
in practice for everyone, usually involves compromises and trade-off's. If
one side or some factions do not like the "compromises", then there'll be
conflict and possibly revolt down the road. The revolt may take the form of
violence or it may take the form of an election.

Caveat: This value on the individual is partly a result of reducing social-
political-economic actors to the smallest, functioning divisible unit. *g*
It's also a result of having been raised in a Western society which puts
such value on individuals. Few individuals could survive apart from the
group. Most societies except this as a matter of course and make no pretense
of putting the individual before the group. And to be fair, western
societies usually put the group before the individual.

Some economic beliefs ...

Only competitive markets lead to efficient uses of resources; however,
efficiency is not always the important value in a situation. Further, most
markets are not competitive, power permeates most markets usually leading to
some participants having advantages over other participants and/or be able
to externalize some costs are the public.

There are a host of reasons why governments do poorly running businesses;
however, government is one way of managing imperfect markets and powerful
businesses. This goes back to principle of decentralizing power.

Societies are dynamic. What works at one time may not at another. Solutions
to one problem may create different problems. The game never ends and as it
changes power shifts around, sometimes congregating around a few actors.
This might lead other actors to band together to redress the situation.

If government has become bigger for longer than businesses, then government
may need to be deflated a bit. If it's business than has become too
powerful, then it needs to be taken down a bit. Both 'government' and
'business' are broad categories and one may have to drill down to the
specifics: Is the government federal or county or California or Maine? Is
'business' manufacturers or exporters or the FAANG gang?1 And
then there's the question of civil society and how government and business
are embedded in it.

Epistemological beliefs -

The scientific method and critical thinking. Watch your emotions. Listen
first. Count to 100. Etc. *g*

The above is why I'm a pragmatic moderate. The policies I want depend on how
I map the above to a particular time in the US. And of course, policies
towards what goals?

OTOH, I do have preferences when examining a potential presidential

1) Served successfully as a governor OR

2) Served successfully as a federal legislator for at least 6 years AND
served federal cabinet secretary OR been a military officer (O-6 or higher)

3) Even-keel temperament / sense of humor / doesn't get offended by personal
slights / not threaten by smart people / sense of perspective

I voted for Romney in 2012 and Libertarian in 2016. If President Trump is
the GOP nominee in 2020, then I will not vote GOP.2 I like that
Elizabeth Warren puts forth policies and programs that can be studied (did
you know she was once Republican?). I like Buttigieg's temperament, but I
know little about his policies. Bernie Sanders understands the mood of many
Americans, but I do not think his policies will work as he imagines. Senator
Harris is a first-term senator. The others are thumb-nail photos on the
screen. *g*

1 Facebook-Amazon-Apple-Netfix-Google (Where's Microsoft?!)

2 This does not mean I would vote Democrat. For me, there's
always the Libertarian candidate protest vote. *g*


^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Jul 3 00:35:59 2019
Christopher Marlowe,

I'd have to be able to match a candidate to my preferred policies and I'm
currently uncertain as to what policies I prefer now. *g*

More in a bit


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Jul 3 00:25:04 2019
wolfguar Who would you
prefer as candidate for President
in 2020? It can be from either

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 2 23:40:09 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What song did Giles
play in memory of Joyce 'the
Answer: My bad

My Bad...that was the wrong
episode! It was 'Forever' I was
thinking of where Giles played
some old records.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 2 20:54:20 2019
Agent Cooper,

"A few are still missing. But they will be here in time."

"The Germans?"

"Yes. Nervous as puppies."

"Good. I like them best that way."

Army General M.M. Malinsky speaking with his COS in the opening pages of
The Red Army.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Jul 2 20:38:42 2019

Which columnist?

Agent Cooper,

I posted on Yuri Andropov last Friday. An excerpt of that post ...

"...Yuri Andropov was running the USSR. He only held the post for little
over a year.1 He was ex-KGB. He was certain the US was planning a
surprise first-strike against the USSR and had implemented Project RYAN:
tasking Soviet intelligence to look for warnings and indicators of such a

I do not know if you watched The Americans. If not, nutshell: Two KGB
deep cover officers, living as a married couple running a travel agency in
DC, conduct espionage operations. The couple, Elizabeth and Philip, had been
in the US for ~ 15 years at the time the series begins, ~1981.

In episode, In Control, they and the KGB react to the attempted
assassination of President Reagan. Their handler tells them, KGB didn't do
this, and directs them to prepare to execute sabotage and assassination
missions in the event the assassination attempt is the start of a coup.

Elizabeth believes a coup is happening, especially after Haig announces ~I'm
in control~ (remember this?). Philip has doubts. Reagan survives, Haig does
not take control, and the US continues. Elizabeth and Philip stand-down.

Were the over-reacting? Most Americans would think so, but consider the
number of Americans who believed President Obama was angling for a third
term (and those folks probably believe Obama was so doing and their own
vigilance and actions prevented it).

Most American Army officers I knew who served in Europe during the Cold War
believe the Soviets would invade Western Europe the moment the opportunity
presented itself. Not a question of if, but when? OTOH, some of what I've
heard and read of both people and papers coming out of Russia after the Cold
War suggested the Soviets did not see such an invasion as feasible. Stalin
believed western European countries, especially Italy and France, would
going to experience their own revolutions as the workers rebelled against
the capitalists (Stalin actually did see the world through red colored
glasses *g*). Stalin just felt he had to wait and then he died in 1953.

The Soviets did have plans for an invasion or counter-invasion, but that's
pragmatism (the US Department of War had plans to fight Britain). The
Soviet's plans included using tactical nuclear weapons. And that was the
bugaboo, because the Soviets believed if they used tac nukes then the
US/NATO would respond in kind. How would that play out? Too much uncertainty
for the Soviets, so while they did prepare for an invasion/counter-invasion,
they weren't itching to initiate one.

Off this, if you're interested in a great fictional read on combat in Europe
between NATO/USSR check Ralph Peter's The Red Army. The story told
through the points of view of several Soviet officers and soldiers. Peters
doesn't go into much detail on why the war was fought and doesn't show it
from NATO's point-of-view.

You may know Peters. If not, he's a retired LTC who served in intelligence.
He's a prolific writer of both fiction and non-fiction and for years was a
commentator on FOX. He ended or FOX ended the relationship, because Peters
is a severe critic of President Trump (I believe Peters thinks the Russians
have their hooks in Trump).


^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 2 19:29:30 2019
Wolfguard: Beating the dead horse even further, I read some more about the KAL shoot down on the interwebs.

Yuri Andropov was running the USSR in 1983. Apparently, Andropov was absolutely convinced the US was poised to attack the Soviet Union, and he believed this attack would come soon, and come from over the arctic via missiles or nuclear bombers.

Andropov constantly voiced this suspicion with his top military commanders.

The guy who ordered the Soviet fighter pilots to shoot down the KAL airliner was a disciple of Andropov's theory, and ordered the attack even though the frontline folks and I think even the fighter pilots themselves were telling their commanders that they were not tailing a US bomber but a civilian airliner.

The top brass was convinced Andropov was right and that this the start of a US sneak attack. In their minds, this was a US B-52 and they wanted it shot down ASAP.

It seems like all those poor people died due to what was in essence a form of mass hysteria on a grand level within the Soviet military command. Just crazy.

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Tue Jul 2 14:18:10 2019
wolfguard I don't regard that columnist as an expert, thank you.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Jul 2 13:36:22 2019
Trivia Girl: Giles played a song? Huh. Don't remember that.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Jul 2 12:41:31 2019
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What song did Giles play in memory of Joyce 'the Body'?

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Jul 2 12:23:19 2019
Today Tuesday, July 2nd
2019 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Feena's Mum
Friend or Foe
Willow's Snake

Happy Birthday from the Bronze,
to Bow, DZRAY, Feena's Mum,
Friend or Foe, Joshua, lainey2,
shadoed, Willow's Snake,

They should film that story
and show it every Christmas.
Xander, 'Faith, Hope &

to be added to the birthday list,
please email

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Jul 2 12:12:29 2019
Good morning beta!

^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Jul 2 01:30:57 2019
Happy Birthday Absinthe, Cowdoc, houses, and Melody!

Trivia Girl - Perhaps notsoShyGirl is on vacation?

The State in its infinite wisdom is giving us Friday off. I can't recall that happening in the 45 years I've worked here. Since I don't work on Fridays, it theoretically doesn't impact me, but since I've been condemned to review help desk tickets, it means that there won't be any of those to darken my email later. I will think patriotic thoughts on Friday. *g*